Frankly, I’m afraid you may have waited too long for college to be realistic on the conventional timeline. My son, too, took a nosedive in 6th grade. I took exactly the opposite tack (after reading Parenting With Love and Logic). I stopped worrying about it. If he couldn’t pass sixth grade, it meant he needed to repeat sixth grade, not that I was a terrible parent. I realized that school was his thing, and he has the intelligence to solve his own problems, but that as long as I was making it my problem (meetings, planning, sitting on him to do his work, checking his folder for assignments, etc.)…it didn’t have to be his problem. He was fine letting me worry about it instead of him. Once I stopped doing the worrying for him, he had to worry about it, and pulled his Ds and Fs up to As in less than two months. (I think there was also an element of fear that I loved good grades more than I loved him. Once I unconditionally loved my D and F student, that fear went away, and he didn’t need to prove anything to himself anymore.)
I got flamed here for it, but he’s now 22 and about to graduate college and is being headhunted by some of the best recruiters in his field (despite going to the “wrong” college that also gets flamed here - DeVry) and is doing just great academically.
At 16, though, there’s no time left. His applications should be going out in a few months, with the transcript he’s got now. If he hasn’t learned how to solve his own academic problems yet, I’m afraid you’re going to be stuck with him a while longer while he learns.
The good news is that it’s actually *easier *to get into college if you’re not a recent high school graduate. They don’t care about ACTs or SATs or GPAs if you’re a “nontraditional student.” So given a few years to get his head together - which means HE has to do the work getting his head together, not you - college is still an option.
I’ve been on the cusp of taking him to see a psychologist/psychiatrist many times. But there’s never been a compelling piece of evidence that has ever suggested to me that he was anything else but a well adjusted teen who simply didn’t give a rat’s ass about school.
When I talked to my son about it, he simply tells me that he’s certainly not about to talk to a stranger about anything and that I should save myself the trouble and money.
Here in Washington we have 2 programs, Running Start and Fresh Start. They get high school kids into community colleges so they are working on both high school and a degree at the same time.
You should seriously look into this. Your kid may very well just have a finely tuned bullshit detector and realizes what a steaming pile hes being served every day masquerading as education. I HATED high school, but my first week at community college was life altering.
What you have tried isn’t working, so it might be time to reassess some of the things you’ve previously ruled out. There are better ideas in the thread than mine, so I’m not trying to convince you that I’m right, but bear with me for a second.
My logic is that at 16, you don’t always have the capacity to make and stick to decisions based on the long-term consequences, and sometimes you just need external motivation (positive or negative) to keep at it. What you call “being a dick” is your recognition that the punishment is arbitrary make-work. But that’s how he sees school, too, and you can’t change that. So if the choice is arbitrary make-work that his friends are also stuck with, vs. arbitrary make-work at the hands of his evil father, he might well choose school. Plus, he gets to bitch about you to anyone who will listen.
You’re trying to treat him like an adult. That’s not really fair to him, because he isn’t one while he’s in high school and living in your house.
Psychologists aren’t just for mental illness, but also for mental blocks. If he can’t get motivated and can’t tell you what it would take, a psychologist might be able to help him figure it out and articulate it in a way that you can’t. (It’s a better idea than the manual labor, anyway.)
Ha, I would have had just the same attitude about seeing a psychologist.
If he’s bored stiff with high school, he could switch to a community college and graduate by doing the work there and getting college credit at the same time. A bunch of kids I know who are tired of HS and want to move on, already, are doing this. CCs often have programs for it. (This is in CA; I think CCs might be a little different elsewhere.)
If he just can’t be bothered with anything, and going to a CC instead wouldn’t help, then it’s probably time to let him sink or swim a la** WhyNot**. I don’t think it’s too late for that, because he can go to a CC* later* and do GE requirements to transfer to a 4-year, or he can do a two-year program and become a firefighter or a welder or something useful that will end in a perfectly good job.
My brother was one of those that hated high school with a fiery passion. He did one of those semi-independent programs that they put troubled kids into for a few years. It took him a while to figure out what he wanted to do, but he still turned out a perfectly decent adult with a real job. My other brother thought about nothing but skateboards and bass guitar for about 5 years, joined an odd religion for a while, and then got a PhD. He’s about to get tenure at his university. * Anything* can happen, apparently.
He’s in grade 10 so he’s got a little over a year before he needs to start applying for early acceptance. High school for him is not a total hash. Yet.
But I have decided at the start of this year to lay off of him. In short, it’s taken every ounce of discipline I have not to harp on him about updates I get from his teachers about his marks or assignments not being handed in. I must admit, I’ve broken my silence on more than one occasion out of sheer frustration. But I don’t sit on top of him to check to see what’s assigned or what is due or when to prepare for tests. I don’t even check his homework. He tells me that it’s done and I’m all, ‘okay, if it’s done then it’s done’.
But the hands off approach hasn’t shown results just yet. Perhaps I need to re-double my efforts.
The question about that is: What do I say to the teacher that writes me to say “John” is not pulling his weight in class, not applying himself? Do I tell the teacher that I’m taking the hands-off approach? Do I tell them that I’ve learned not to worry and love to watch him bomb?
Is he sitting at the dining room table to do his homework every night? If so, is anybody watching him to make sure he does it?
How the hell is he participating in extracurricular activities with a 1.something average? At my high school, you had to maintain at least a C average to participate in any sports.
I didn’t mean light up as in drugs. I meant light up as in what gets those synapses in the brain firing or the heart fluttering. If literally nothing is in his wheelhouse then maybe he’s depressed or just hasn’t found his thing yet. There has to be something he gets excited about, otherwise something may be wrong.
My dad and one brother are much like you describe your son. Both have depressive issues, though neither will get help or admit to it. Your mileage may vary.
That was the routine for a couple of years. But if I don’t know what’s assigned because I wasn’t in class with him and he chose not to write it down, then how do I know what needs doing?
He was on JV last year. His coach gave him a stern talking to, but at my request. That’s as far as it went.
We all know the best way for managers to get workers motivated at work is to sit on their shoulder and micromanage their every move with the assumption that they can’t do a single thing on their own, yeah? It’s a good thing you’re no longer doing exactly that with his homework, in my opinion.
I want to ask - if nothing seems to make him happy or motivated, what makes him unhappy? What makes him mad? What sort of things does he get upset about (even if you think they are trivial)?
What I said was, “You’ll have to take it up with WhyKid. We are available for a conference on Monday at 3:45, does that work for you? I’m willing to sit in if you and he would like that, but his schoolwork is his responsibility. If he doesn’t meet the requirements of the course, flunk him.”
Shockingly enough, most of his teachers loved it. I had one who pouted and wanted me to take responsibility for his work, until I pointed out how futile that was. I think he enjoyed that a little too much. But he started turning in his homework in her class, if only to prove her wrong.
Every parent/teacher conference at report card pick up went much the same way. He went to speak with each teacher, and I sat in, but kept my mouth shut. I’d sign the form that I met with the teacher, but I was clear that this was his opportunity to talk to the teacher about issues in class without distraction, not mine. If they’d turn to me to talk, I’d literally point at the kid and tell them to talk to him.
I was always available to him to bounce ideas off of, explain an assignment he didn’t understand or let him practice a speech on me, that sort of thing. I didn’t bow out of the homework entirely, but I did learn to wait for him to tell me what he needed of me, instead of figuring that out for him.
And, most importantly, I told him what I was doing and why I was changing tacks. I was honest that what I was doing before wasn’t working, so I was going to try something else, because that’s what you do when the old way isn’t working. I didn’t just let him suddenly hang out to dry without explanation.
From all that you’ve indicated, he’s smart enough but not motivated. At 16, it is time to start 1) becoming responsible, and 2) considering the future.
I would add to these options (college, job, or military) “trade school”. And start making it understood that the only options for him to continue to be supported by you (either away at school or at home) are FULL TIME college/trade school attendance. Don’t let him “slide” by taking only a small load of classes or minimal online classes.
If college, then stipulate that the support ends after, say, 5 years - degree or not. If he opts to hop between majors, let him know that you will not support endless changes.
If he drops out of trade school, again, the 5 year limit applies.
Call them “sticks” or “carrots”, but the key is to be clear about the conditions to indicate that you mean to “enforce” them.
Adolescents don’t really intuitively understand cause and effect, the benefits of delayed gratification, or the intrinsic value of hard work. If we were all pure rational actors at that age, I wouldn’t have started smoking at 14.
I know you’re not me, but if I were you, I’d set aside two hours for homework Monday through Thursday, and four on the weekends. The hour before dinner, the hour after dinner would work. He’s in 10th grade, so he should have something to do every night. If he doesn’t write down his assignments, he gets to sit at the kitchen or dining room table reading from one of his textbooks for the full two hours. If he doesn’t bring the textbooks home, he can either sit there quietly for two hours staring at the wall, or read from the dictionary or something.
No phone, no TV on anywhere in the house, and no computer unless it’s necessary for the task at hand.
There’s no need to harp on him every minute, but make it clear that there are rules that have to be followed in regard to school work. Don’t micromanage his work, but maintain a presence near by to let him know you’re watching.
No offense, but just throwing up your hands and waiting for the light to come on by itself doesn’t sound like it’s going to happen. I would try putting boundaries in place so that “not doing homework” is potentially more boring than “doing homework.”
I respect this kid. You need to do the same, and stop trying to engineer his life for him.
He thinks high school is a bullshit way to spend your time; many kids his age, and especially many boys, feel the same (and often with very, very good reason), but they knuckle under to what the authority figures tell them and more or less conform and do what everyone else does. And then when they get to college and they walk into class and when a teacher asks them why they are there they have no clue other than an openmouthed “uhh … I dunno … it’s what you’re supposed to do.” (I taught freshman for years and this is a very common response). So they go to college and major in something or other and then get out and they maybe get a job and hey, look life happened to me.
The desire not to be just another rat in the race is a good thing, reflective of independant thought, and is to be encouraged. The fact that he’s indifferent to your obvious attempts at bribery speaks well for his integrity – he’s not gonna dance for your cheese, either. If you want to put in place rules like “No TV if you get an F” or whatever, fine, but you can’t blame him if he chooses “ok, no TV.”
This crap about “oh, he’s 16 and needs to be applying for college now” is BS. Some of the smartest, best-motivated students I had were kids who had taken 2, 3 , 5, even ten years off to try different things and figure out what they wanted and then came back. In some countries this is much less possible, but in this country a 22 year old freshman is not uncommon at most state universities.
If he doesn’t want to go to college, he shouldn’t. Five to one he’ll work some crap job for a year or two, decide it sucks, and (assuming you aren’t enabling him by, say, letting him live in the house rent-free) the lightbulb will go on. And he’ll be a much better student and person for it.
And if he finds something he loves that doesn’t require it … well, honestly, I have three degrees, but when I watch the reality shows about lumberjacks and oil rig workers, I envy their lives.
