Reading about the (alleged) Ground Zero suicide reminded me of something. IIRC, there was a thread a few months ago where someone asserted that, if a friend tells you someone close to them committed suicide, it’s crass to inquire, “Did he leave a note?”.
Did someone really say that? (I tried doing a search, but it’s scary how many threads come up when you input “suicide note” :dubious: ) In any event, what is an appropriate response?
When someone tells you a loved one has died–no matter how-- the only appropriate response is “I am sorry for your loss.” If the survivor wants to tell you more he/she will. It is always crass to ask questions (“Did he leave a note?” “Did he suffer long?” “Who was his doctor?”) or to make “consoling” statements (“It’s for the best,” “Now he’s in heaven,” “You must feel relieved that it’s over,” “You have to get on with your life,” “I know just how you feel–my dog died when I was 10…” etc. Say you’re sorry and be quiet.
The same you would say at any other type of death, “I’m sorry for your loss.”
Okay then.
But asking a question doesn’t necessarily make someone a tactless jerk, I think. It’s just the way people are socialized. “I went to a concert.” “Cool! Was it good?” “I’m pregnant.” “You’re kidding! When are you due?” “My brother committed suicide.” “Oh, I’m so sorry. Did he leave a note?” People, or at least Americans, are conditioned to toss the ball back.
I don’t mind at all if someone asks for non-intimate details of how my dad died.
The thing is that it’s not an ordinary social conversation. For starters, the person is sharing this information only because he/she has to. It’s certainly not something they want to say. It might be the most terrible thing the person has ever had to say, and there is a ritual attendant to it. You can’t talk about it like going to a ball game. Your first obligation is not to inflict further pain. How might a question-and-answer conversation go?
“My husband hanged himself Tuesday.”
“I’m sorry to hear that. Did he leave a note?”
Choose one:
A/ "Yes."
“Well, what did he say?”
“He said I am controlling bitch and this was the only way he could get away from me.”
Your next question is what, exactly?
B/ "No."
“Well, how do you know it was really suicide?”
“Because he put a shotgun in his mouth and pulled the trigger with his big toe.”
Your next question is what, exactly?
C/ "No. I thought we were so happy. I didn’t know anything was wrong."
Your next question is what, exactly?
There is no way that you can know whether anything you say, no matter well intended, won’t cause more pain. That’s why it’s best to stop after “I am sorry for your loss.” If the person wants to talk more he’ll let you know.
Of course time is a factor too. If a friend tells you out of the blue that it’s, say, the tenth anniversary of his mom’s death, you might ask something open-ended like “What was she like?” and let him steer the conversation. That’s very different from talking to someone in the depths of their grief.
I think it also depends to a large degree on how well you know the person. For someone I am close to I would ask some gentle questions to let them know that I am open to talking to them further.
For an acquaintance I would only make a consoling statement such as “I’m sorry you are going through this” or “I’m sorry for your loss.”
For a good friend I would say more and probably ask some questions as I said above. In some instances I would probably ask if there was a note but this would depend on the direction of the conversation and if I sensed my friend wanted to talk. I would not ask questions out of my curiosity but only if I sensed the questions would enable my friend to talk and understand that I was willing to hear whatever they needed to say.
a friend of mine killed herself when we were in highschool ten years ago. She did leave a note, or she at least sent letters to her best friends. I know that, because one of them was my girlfriend. So, I’ve never had to ask the question, BUT: There always mystery about it to me, because I still didn’t know why she did it, because I wasn’t told the content of the note. This isn’t a hijack, but what if you know there’s a note? It’s even more difficult to ask what the heck was written! Amd, us being highschool kids at the time, the rumour mill was churning out lots of crap theory on why.
My friend’s son committed suicide. All I said was “I’m very sorry that it happened.” Asking anything else would have been totally crass.
Besides, in this neck of the woods, word was already out in the street about it.
I can honestly say in almost 12 yrs since my husband died no one asked that question. Obviously I know kind, polite people.
Had they asked they could have got one of two responses;
a filthy look and possibly a slap
the truth
Both of which would have made them feel like shit for asking. They didn’t deserve more. I can’t think of a more foul, revolting question to ask in those circumstances.
“Oh, I’m sorry for your loss.”
toss the ball back:
“Do you need anything?”
“is there anything I can do to help?”
It totally depends on the strength of the relationship to whom which your speaking.
No it doesn’t. That information is always offered not asked for.
I’ve known a couple of people who have killed themselves. I told their families I was sorry for their loss and I know they were dearly loved by the person that killed themself.
No one asked me that until like a year after my dad had died. I was shocked and just told them that I didn’t want to talk about it. There were a very, very few people I actaully shared anything about the note with.
However, I had some stupid, stupid people where I worked that decided it was their place to tell me what was happening with my father in the afterlife and not in a reassuring way either. I know it’s not the pit but I have to say …fuckers!
I’d say something like “I’m sorry for your loss.”
My problem is I’m just not good at recognizing when people want to talk more about difficult subjects. How can you tell? I generally say “if you want to talk about it, I’m here for you” but sometimes that doesn’t get it across.
For example, a few years ago my sister in law’s father was diagnosed with Alzheimers. When she told me, I expressed sympathy and told her I was always there for her if she wanted to talk. She never brought it up, so I didn’t either other than the occassional “how’s your dad doing” to which she would answer “he has some good days and some bad days.” Later, I found out that she really did want to discuss it and needed someone to vent to. However, since I only asked the basic “how is he” question, she thought I wasn’t comfortable with it. I guess I should have asked a follow up question. But I’m never good at thinking of what a good one is.
FTR, I’ve never said anything except “I’m sorry to hear that” in response to news of any death. With one exception, but I’ll get to that in a moment.
When I was a freshman in college, I knew a girl whose father had died shortly before school began. Late in the year, a mutual friend of ours, who had started school in the second semester, told me that when they’d met, she’d said, “My father died…AND DON’T SAY YOU’RE SORRY!”
Mynn, that’s a good suggestion. Unfortunately, when people are in crisis mode, there are usually several dozen things they could use some help with, but they’re too distraught to delegate tasks. I’ve heard it’s better to be more specific, like “Do you need someone to look after the children?” Or “I can do your dishes/laundry/mow your lawn if you’d like.” Or bring food. (But as my cousin once said, “REAL food…no more damn casseroles!” I think he has an aversion to casseroles to this day, because of the association with his brother’s death.)
Okay, the one exception. When I was 22, I was in conversation with my sister’s then-boyfriend. Somehow, we got onto the subject of his senile mother and all the stuff they didn’t talk about. “…or my divorce, or my children and how they died—”
“You had children?”
“Yeah, I had two children who were murdered. Or Flight 103, or—”
Now, as I said, I was only 22. And I knew people who had died: Louis for instance. And people who’d lost loved ones, like the friend I mentioned above. But this was such a bomb to drop in my lap, especially when this was only the second time I’d met the guy. So, in my state of shock, I gargled out, “You don’t have to talk about it if you don’t want!” And immediately felt like a nimrod for even saying that. But that was the best, most tactful reaction I could cobble together. Sorry if it wasn’t adequate.
MaddyStrut: I know what you mean. And…I know I’m going to get flamed for this, but, unless it’s a situation like telling your boss why you need time off, or telling someone you know well, who’s going to know anyway, like Annie-Xmas said, why bring it up if you don’t want to talk about it?
It’s all relative. If my dad died in a tragic tree catching accident*, I assume I’d mind - or at least be embarrassed - discussing it & answering other’s queries. .
*Non-graphic video link
They might just be too stunned to not say it. Alternately, they know the other person is going to ask what happened, and since they’re going to have to say it anyway, they might as well get it all out in one breath.
Rilchiam - good point. Had several friends lose their parents while we were in our teens and twenties - knowing the ‘audience’ I would show up with pizza and other appetite-appropriate foods.
Good point about specifics - I guess when I read it, I was taking more as you bump into someone or they come back from several weeks away - time out after it all happened rather than a phone call in the middle of the night “They just found Mary - she committed suicide”.
Maddy - yeah, sometimes you have to keep pushing. I apparently have a big sign on my forehead that says “tell me everything and then walk away forever once cleansed” so getting people to open up has never been a struggle ;).