My father passed away last week. I just returned to work yesterday. As various coworkers have seen me they have offered their condolences. This is all fine. Then one coworker after the normal expressions of sympathy asks “Did he know the Lord?”. What? Even though I am a nonbeliever I knew my father well enough to answer yes to the question as she intended it. But what if the answer had been no? Was she going to say “Sorry about your father going to hell?”
Also the way she said it made me want to say “He knew of him, but he was a couple of years of ahead of him in school so they weren’t good friends.”
Maybe you should have? Someone should have told her off then or later, for being such a moron. Never underestimate the ability of some people to be complete assholes, no matter what the situation.
When my father died a few years ago, and the rest of my life was turning into shit as well, I used to hear “this is all part of God’s plan…”, as if somehow the fact that all the horrible things happening to me were on some old bearded guy’s list was supposed to me make me feel better. Some people just don’t realize they need to think about what they’re saying and realize their beliefs are worse than useless to share.
When my godmother and favorite aunt died, the principal at our school, a nun, said, “Well, as much as you miss her, remember you now have someone else to pray to.” I was only 11, but I remember being sooooo pissed. Yeah, I can PRAY to her and ask her for guidance. But I won’t see her at family gatherings, or be able to hug her anymore. That’s GREAT.
I don’t fault people for believeing whatever they do or for being true to their beliefs.
But that was very inapropriate and thoughtless. Since there was nothing she could do if he didn’t “know the Lord” in her terms, then why ask? Better to offer condolences or offer to pray for you.
Any Chrsitian Dopers have an opinion?
Maybe a good response would have been
“You mean in the Biblical sense?”
Mental Guy, my prayers are with you. And I have personally witnessed this type of situation. When I was going to a Fund’ist Baptist School, my best friend’s grandmother died. In my clumsy efforts to comfort my friend I did my best to assure her, “She’s in Heaven now, she’s at peace.” It wasn’t working. Just then another girl came into the restroom, saw what was going on, and asked, “Was your grandmother saved?” It didn’t occur to me at the time what a wildly innapropriate question this was. Mind you, about 99% of us bought into the whole Fund’ist dogma of salvation, and in Fund’ist circles, this is actually sort of a normal question to ask. But really, a moment’s thought (something Fund’ists are not known for) would bring about the realization that by asking “Was your grandmother saved?” or “Did your father know the Lord?” is tantamount to asking, “Did your departed loved one subscribe to my particular version of Christianity? 'Cause, you know, if they didn’t, they are now suffering the torments of aitch-eee-double-hockey-sticks”.
Not only is the question inappropriate and uncomforting, it is downright cruel, especially if the bereaved is not a Fund’ist.
I had the pleasure of experiencing this at a ‘reception’ held after my husband’s first wife passed away. It was weird enough going to a function at Her sister’s house. Then my hubby’s brother-in-law (hefty, sweaty Bible-thumpin’ fundie) corners me.
He says. “DOYOUKNOWTHELORDJESUSCHRISTASYOURSAVIOUR?!?!?”
First I’m thinking, Huh ? Is that one word??
I gathered my wits and replied politely, “I’m a cradle Episcopalian; I was baptized at one week old. We don’t look at God’s grace as a one-time thing; we try to walk daily in His teachings.”
Well, you would’ve thought I had suddenly sprouted two heads. Next comes a diatribe about the one Episcopalian he had met who “DIDN’T EVEN KNOW THE BIBLE !!!111!!”
I thought I’d never get out of that corner. The gall, the unmitigated gall of that man. And at a wake no less !!
It’s people like that who turn folks away from spirituality.
One guy I work with, his mother passed away from cancer a few weeks ago. The fundies I work with were quite pleased that she was saved before she passed. Not that its a bad thing, since she asked for a priest, and the son was glad she died peacefully. But if it were my parent, I would told them where to shove it. Even if the deceased became “Saved”, it would not be any of their fudging business.
Did they know she was Catholic? A lot of fundies think that if you’re Catholic, you’re going to hell. Stupid, stupid, stupid, IMHO. A God that would condemn a decent human being to hell, simply because of the flavor of their religion is not a God worth worshipping, IMHO.
MentalGuy, if you had said “No” and she were a decent Christian (well, a decent Christian probably wouldn’t ask such a question, but you know what I mean), she would probably have said something like, “Well, I will pray for him, in hopes that God will take his soul up to Heaven.” My deepest sympathies on the loss of your father.
This Christian thinks that’s a good response, along with “He knew of him, but he was a couple of years of ahead of him in school so they weren’t good friends.” My actual response would probably have been a shocked, “Excuse me?!” since being rude and snarky goes against my Christian beliefs, however tempting and justified it is! Then again, my stock mental response to the question, “Have you found Jesus?” is “Some of us never lost Him.” That or, “Yes. He was behind the couch all along!”
Mentalguy, as far as I’m concerned, you handled the situation well. My condolences on the loss of your father and my sympathies on your having been afflicted with an idiot. I wonder if these people have any idea how bad they make Christianity work. I’m willing to assume they mean well and are sincere at least some of the time, but talk about a rude question!
MentalGuy I’m sorry for your loss. I’ve been there and, as you have discovered, found out that the world is full of asshats. Probably well meaning asshats, but asshats nonetheless.
Just to add one of my favorites. “What do you mean? You were supposed to be keeping an eye on him! You know he’ll wander off if you turn your head for even just one second!”
<snerk> Good one! I gotta remember that.
HEE! Love it! Snarkiness and smartassery all rolled up in one!
Course there’s something she could do if you answer ‘no’ - she can grab your lapels and say “And what about you? - you don’t want to burn eternally do you?”.
Yes, of course it would be incredibly insensitive to do that…
My sincerest condolences MentalGuy. Vent here all you need to.
{{{{{hugs}}}}}
When my father passed away, I was 11. People say some of the most whiplash-inducing things to you during those times. I was approached by the minister who performed the graveside service after we buried him. Like any NORMAL child who just lost her father, I was standing there in the pouring rain having a good cry when he came up to me and gave his condolences then proceeded to make an assumption on my mental state. He said “I know you’re hurting right now, but don’t do anything stupid, your mom can’t handle it.”
What the fuck???
Look, I loved my father as much as a prepubescent girl could (yes, we had our problems), but I don’t think I’m the one you should be telling that to. My mother just lost her HUSBAND to cancer that was diagnosed little over a year ago and I’m the one you should be looking out for? She got thrust into widowhood and a single parent raising two teenage daughters. I would feel sorry for anyone who was a single parent raising daughters.
Some people truly have no class and respect for a grieving family.
Thanks for your understanding. And I’m thankful that this message board is here to complain about things like this. I’m sure almost anyone I know would have thought I was an asshole for complaining about something like this.
I find it constantly amazing that Christians in this country are complaining that they are the ones being persecuted for their beliefs.
Sorry about your Dad—mine died ten years ago this year, and even though I didn’t like mine, it’s still quite a jolt.
When my grandmother died, someone patted my mother on the shoulder and said, “She’s not dead—she’s merely sleeping,” and my mother had the wherewithall to say, “Jesus—we buried her!!”
I am sorry for your loss. I hope that you may be consoled by your memories of him, and by those who loved you both.
That said, in a condolence line, the answer to anyone should always, in my opinion, be “Yes, thank you.”. I mean, you have to take into account the fact that people who come to a religious funeral service, presumably because they’ve been invited, might be religious.
For pity’s sake, is your farther’s funeral the last chance to honor him, a consolation for your mother, a party for the neighbors, or a chance to sneer at his friends? Take your choice, but keep in mind the fact that honoring your father can mean different things to different people.
Your joke is funny. It is up to you whether the humor is worth the obvious cost to your family.
My mom died almost seven years ago. She had a couple of overzealous friends that she wanted kept in the dark about her illness until it was all over. Then they started in on my dad with the “She’s with god” and blah, blah, blah. He simply said, “Barb was secular.”
Then again, my stock mental response to the question, “Have you found Jesus?” is “Some of us never lost Him.” That or, “Yes. He was behind the couch all along!”