What the hell kind of question was that?

Except that in the case of the OP, it wasn’t at his father’s funeral by anyone invited there. It was his coworkers, said to him at his workplace, who presumably never even met his father.

So that’s where you get that rockin’ wit.

King of Soup:

This was not at the funeral. This was after I had returned to work and the question was from a coworker. I think that in that situation they should take into account that the person they are talking to may not be religious. But what possible good could a question like that do anyway? It is too late to do anything about it. Also, what if the situation was reversed and I was a believer but my father was not? That question would be one of the most uncomforting things that could be said.

Also, I didn’t actually tell that joke, so I fail to see how my family could pay a price for it.

SPLORT!!!

Thanks, MentalGuy. Now I have to wipe Diet Coke off my keyboard. Incidentally, I’m borrowing that line to use on the fundy that asks me if I know the Lord every couple of months. :smiley:

My condolences as well. My father passed away 3 years ago, fortunately I did not have to deal with any of those comments. If I had been asked “Did he know the Lord?” I think I may have been tempted to respond, “I think they were only just recently introduced.”

I see you’ve already been corrected a couple of times already on the location of the comment. For myself, even if it was at the funeral the comment was totally inappropriate. Being religous is not an excuse for thoughtless behavior. Expressing your religous beliefs doesn’t give anyone an excuse or right to be inconsiderte or just dowright stupid.
I respect people’s rights to believe what they choose but when their beliefs spill over into the lives of others {especially some of the ridiculous comments told about here} then they’d better be ready to deal with the consequences.
Sayiing “Yes thank you” to someone for a thoughtless intrusion into your time of mourning does NOT seem like a polite option. People who are inconsiderate have surrendered their right to consideration. That doesn’t require being rude and inconsiderate in retaliation. I prefer some blunt honesty. such as asking “are you aware how incredibly inappropriate and inconsiderate that comment is?”

King of Soup, I’m a devout Episcopalian; my father’s an agnostic curmudgeon who’s just turned 76. He’s not converting to Christianity. If someone asked me if he knew the Lord either at the funeral home or at work, I’d be stunned that someone would ask such an inappropriate question. Presumably, if someone asks the question, they don’t know if he was Christian or not. If he is Christian, then all is well. If he wasn’t and they believe all non-Christians are going to hell, then all that can result is more pain for someone who’s already grieving.

As I said earlier, I understand the need for comfort, although how someone who never knew my father would need comfort after his death is beyond me. What I don’t understand is how a person could ask a question with the potential to inflict more grief. What would they say if the answer were, “No.”?

I love my father dearly; he’s in excellent health, and I hope he continues kicking around for a long time to come. I also hope that, when the time comes, no one asks if the man who used to tell me, “If God can’t tell the difference between a man who goes to church every Sunday and does terrible things the rest of the week and a man who does good things every day of the week, he ain’t worth worshipping!” knew the Lord. I’ll be polite; that’s another thing Dad taught me. I’ll also be appalled by the person’s rudeness and lack of consideration

Now do you get it?
CJ

Forgive the pile on, but honestly! EVEN if this remark had been made at the funeral, it was still grossly inappropriate.

As a fellow mourner (not related) your job at the funeral is to show respect for the deceased, and support to the grieving. It is not ever to shove any agenda in anyone’s face, period.

If his Dad didn’t know the Lord (what a phrase! what a judgemental and isolating thing to say)-what are they to do about it now? His knowledge of the Lord is now moot-or maybe closer than the nimrod who said those words could ever dream of.

What “cost” to his family? Are you thinking of a loss of face or a demonstation of some weakness in character by giving this woman a well deserved set down?
If anything, the OP was the more polite and mannerly of the two. He showed grace under pressure and provocation-and he let her keep her delusion by affirming her ridiculous premise. Where is her character? Where are her Christian values? All I see is arrogance and superiority and judgement out of her mouth. Bah!
I have been thru too many funerals–I have no patience with those who claim Christian values and yet practice none. This woman needs to be shocked out of her behavior–snarky and smart ass is a good start.

Personally, I would have been tempted to overdose her with sarcasm.
"Did he know the Lord? OMG-NO!- he didn’t! What’s gonna happen to him now? My poor Dad will burn eternally? " and burst into hysterical tears. Lather, rinse and repeat.

Maybe the next time, she won’t jump to make an ass out of herself.

Personally, I prefer the lame throwaway lines that brush off the inappropriate question rather than making it a big deal:

“No, but he knew the muffin man.”

“Well, if you hummed a few bars he could fake a little of it.”

“Must have, Dad knew everyone.”

The “Not really, he was a few years ahead of him in school” crack works too. :slight_smile:

If it weren’t for the difference of 12 years between them, I’d swear we had the same father.

Every time I try to put myself in your shoes, MentalGuy, I get incredibly pissed. While I would want to tell the busybody to not-so-kindly fuck-off, I was raised better than that.

My condolences.

I’m sorry for your loss MentalGuy . I hope there are many people who are supporting you right now.

I tend to think of people who ask these kinds of questions as people who believe they are actively recruiting for God. It can be annoying, and inappropriate - it seems that a lot of time they are doing it more for their own self-worth than anything else. I am a Christian - a quiet Christian (too quiet at times). I don’t believe in pushing my beliefs on others - if you ask me, I will share.

And my snarky answer to the Have You Found the Lord question - “Well, we’ve chipped him, so we expect someone will call soon. He always manages to slip his leash.”

Susan

In my skepto-masochistic amblings, I’ve run across a certain loony segment of Christians who hardly think of anything but how to manipulate people into “getting saved.” I’ve seen accounts of missionary dating. I’ve seen websites noting certain events or conversations as good opportunities to initiate a talk about salvation.

I suspect this person was of that ilk. Presumably her intent was to secure your salvation by either appealing to your desire to be with your father (if he was saved), or by playing on your fear and despair (if he was not), by pointing out that he is in hell, and don’t you want to avoid that fate? I find it horrific, but it seems some people really think this way, and actually think they are doing good.

Come to think of it, these are probably the folks who think homosexuals are constantly recruiting people - it’s all just a massive case of projection.

An opinion? I’ve got a million of 'em! :smiley:

First though, sorry to hear about your loss, MentalGuy.

I’m a youth leader/sunday school teacher for high schoolers at a Lutheran church here in Dallas. Coincidentally, we had a discussion over how to react to bad news from friends just last week. I gave them several hypothetical scenarios where a friend delivered some bad news of various intensity, from failing a test to a death in the family. I also gave them choices of how to respond, and asked them to come up with their own responses if none I had typed up were appropriate.

The responses I provided were various responses people usually give in these situations, from empathy (if you need to talk to someone) to distraction (hey let’s go to the mall to take your mind off it) to religious (mentioning God’s plan).

My students almost unanimously agreed that the religious response was the most appropriate, but only with their Christian friends. They agree that with non-believers or unknowns, the “God’s plan” response is just going to piss people off and strain whatever relationship existed to begin with.

Personally, I’d never ask someone if their deceased relative knew God. I’m leery to start off with the religious response even with people I know are strong Christians, for the same reason MentalGuy found it to be an odd question - what am I going to say if the person wasn’t? While it’ll most likely anger/annoy a non-believer, it’ll just depress the faithful person if the answer is negative.

I lost my father at a very young age, Mental Guy. We both were young — he was forty-two and I was eleven. My heart goes out to you for your loss.

My apologies,mental guy-upon rereading, I found I did not express my condolences.

I am sorry for you loss.

Ooh, spooky. My father died when I was 11, he had just turned 43 two weeks before.

First, MentalGuy, my sincere condolences.

Just based on your description of the situation in the OP, I interpreted it as a case where your co-worker was trying to do exactly that – it was a parity check. She was acknowledging the possibility that your father didn’t share her religious beliefs, and the next comment would’ve been appropriate to that. If you’d answered yes, then she’d have offered a comment about your father’s being at peace with God. If you’d answered no, then she’d have simply offered her condolences.

Not knowing your co-worker, I have absolutely no idea of her true intentions. But I would’ve made the assumption that she was trying to comfort me in some appropriate way. I wouldn’t have immediately assumed that she was trying to “witness,” and responded with anger or mocking, as others in this thread have suggested.

She may not have been intending to witness, but I have no idea how you could possibly interpert her question as an appropriate attempt to comfort anyone.
If an atheist , not knowing your beliefs in any way, commented “Well I hope he wasn’t burdened with any of that Heaven and Hell baloney?” it would be just as tacky.

If you assume she wasn’t being malicious then you’re probably right but thats not an excuse. It was still thoughtless {she didn’t consider that her question might hurt} and inappropriate {inserting her personnel beliefs into someone elses time of mourning}

Sorry for your loss.

If somebody asks me this, it will mean they didn’t know my father. So the only appropriate response would be to turn to them, wild-eyed, and shout, “Holy shit, I knew there was something we’d forgotten over these past weeks. Now he’s damned forever and it’s all my fault for not paying attention to the to-do list! What can I do? What can I do?” as I fall into a sobbing heap upon the floor.

But, if that’s the case, why couldn’t she just have offered her condolences without asking if his father knew the Lord? Also, whether his father knew the Lord makes no difference to what **MentalGuy ** would find find comforting. If the father of a strong Atheist dies, I doubt a comment about how his father is with God was comforting and it could be annoying, no matter how devout a Christian his father would have been. By the same token, if a Wiccan were to die, I’d hardly expect to comfort a Christian by telling her I’m sure he’s “in the Summerlands.”

One thing to keep in mind is I grew up in and live in the Northeast and spent several years in Hawaii. This sort of question and/or witnessing isn’t common in either place, at least in my experience, which is one reason it would be such a suprising question. Again, I assume the woman in the OP’s intentions were good, but I’d find it a decidedly awkward question.

CJ