I'm thinking of sending this very LONG email to my partner's sister

[delphica]

@fervour

I really appreciated your response. I wanted to address the bolded part of your text. In my original post, I was trying to emphasize that Nathan is fed up with the little things AND the big things. I understand from the responses that the OP does not do that. However, if Nathan chooses to write a letter, are you saying he should not include examples of the offending behavior? I can tell you right now that if he told his family that they were dismissive of him they would deny it.

I personally would stick with the one major thing Nathan identifies as an area of potential change, and then provide a concrete example of the ideal behavior. As Green Bean pointed out about the family, and you say about the dismissive behavior, it’s hard to point out an attitude, because the person can easily respond with “I don’t think that” and then you’re right where you started. Focus on an action – so it’s not “you must start considering fervour to be a member of the family” (because heck, Nathan is a member of the family and you don’t want to be treated like that) but rather “invitations to family events will include both of us.”

I hear you that he’s fed up with the little things as well, but I cannot see any situation where listing them will come across as anything other than petty and whining, and that will undermine Nathan. I know they add up, and that they feel like very real problems, but dwelling on them is not going to be productive. And realistically, a big part of good family relationships is the willingness to let some of the little annoying stuff slide.

I hope this works out for you.

[Boyo_Jim]

@fervour

…Although I wasn’t invited to the Smith’s Thanksgiving, I encouraged Nathan to go and visit for at least one meal during the holidays. He said he didn’t want to. I said it was up to him. He said he wanted his absence to make a statement. I’m of the opinion that talking is a better way to make a statement. …

Are you saying that Nathan was invited but you weren’t?

[PunditLisa]

Fervour, does your family welcome the both of you? If that’s the case, then I’d spend the holidays with them and be done with it. There are 363 days in the year aside from Thanksgiving and Christmas, that Nathan can spend with his family, without you if that’s how it needs to be. But holidays should be spent with our partners.

I do think that Nathan needs to speak up. A simple, “Thanks so much for the invitation, but Fervour and I will be spending Christmas day with Fervour’s family.” is simple, non-confrontational, and to the point. After one or two holidays, they’ll get the point that you attend holiday gatherings together or not at all.

It hurts to be excluded, but you cannot change people. Your story is not unique, unfortunately.

[fervour]

@Boyo_Jim

Are you saying that Nathan was invited but you weren’t?

As Kate from Lost would say, “It’s complicated.” As I’ll explain below.

@PunditLisa

Fervour, does your family welcome the both of you? If that’s the case, then I’d spend the holidays with them and be done with it. There are 363 days in the year aside from Thanksgiving and Christmas, that Nathan can spend with his family, without you if that’s how it needs to be. But holidays should be spent with our partners.

I do think that Nathan needs to speak up. A simple, “Thanks so much for the invitation, but Fervour and I will be spending Christmas day with Fervour’s family.” is simple, non-confrontational, and to the point. After one or two holidays, they’ll get the point that you attend holiday gatherings together or not at all.

It hurts to be excluded, but you cannot change people. Your story is not unique, unfortunately.

My family is very welcoming, but I think other dopers have brought forward some valid points.

Follow-up:
I wanted to say thanks for helping me reason through this. I don’t want a blog. I think y’all were right. I consider the question asked and answered. Below are the points that I’ve taken from your responses.

1. Obviously I was more offended than I was willing to admit. It was a long letter.
2. The cards are not the issue.
3. I was only presenting my side and was blind to Nathan’s family’s view.
4. If Nathan has an issue, he will have to deal with it.

At the risk of opening a can of worms, I do think I’ll send a “Thanks for the Holiday Greeting card. I received it Friday. I hope your holidays went well”.

Crystal apparently sent the cards Monday. From the postmark, I think she sent them from the airport. I think she was probably hoping they would arrive on Wednesday before Thanksgiving. I’m thinking she was hoping to influence Nathan into stopping in. I think it would be a courtesy to let her know that the cards arrived on Friday after Thanksgiving. So there was no chance for Nathan to have reacted to the card before she flew back to her home.

[Lady_of_the_Lake]

@General_Derangement

Ha! You’re gay!

Now, moving on, send the letter. Can’t do any harm, it’s so long she’ll never read it.

Okay, okay, I’ll stop being a dick. I only skimmed the letter, and skimmed even less of this thread, but from what I can see you’re reading way too much into a couple of Christmas cards. You’re acting like one of those “gay pride” idiots that’s walking around with a chip on his shoulder, daring people to knock it off, and when a gust of wind blows it off you blame the nearest person and pull out the “YOU HATE ME BECAUSE I’M DIFFERENT” card. Not saying that’s what you are. I’m not even saying that’s what’s going on. But from what I caught in my skimming, that’s about the size of it.

You might want to read the post fully. The parents opened his partners mail, saw the Southpark dvd ‘Cartman got an anal probe’ and it set off a lecture about him going to hell…

People like that…it’s just better not to deal with them at all, imho.

Fervour,
What was the reason given for your partner having to stay 60 miles away while the others vacationed together? That’s very odd.

[billfish678]

@fervour

As Kate from Lost would say, “It’s complicated.” As I’ll explain below.

Crystal apparently sent the cards Monday. From the postmark, I think she sent them from the airport. I think she was probably hoping they would arrive on Wednesday before Thanksgiving. I’m thinking she was hoping to influence Nathan into stopping in. I think it would be a courtesy to let her know that the cards arrived on Friday after Thanksgiving. So there was no chance for Nathan to have reacted to the card before she flew back to her home.

Dude, if your using Lost for real life guidance I really feel for ya

About the cards. I can see what your are saying and thinking there. For good or at least possible reasons, you want her to know the cards got there Friday, not Wed. And her knowing that might make things better, not worse.

There is the downside that letting her know you got em Friday can just come off as complaining.

So, you are IMO, kinda between a rock and hard place on that one. Just try to be very diplomatic in telling her you got them on Friday. Maybe telling her that you appreciate the cards, you noticed and appreciate that she took the extra effort to mail em from the airport, in the hopes that you would get it Wed. If she had good intentioned alterior motives, that lets her know she wasnt ignored, its just her plan failed before it could even start.

If you just say “we got the cards Friday” that could be read many different ways.

Best of luck. And stay away from any strange numbered hatches.

[fervour]

@Lady_of_the_Lake

Fervour,
What was the reason given for your partner having to stay 60 miles away while the others vacationed together? That’s very odd.

The secluded cabin only allows so many guests. Nathan would’ve been one too many. The nearest motel was about 60 miles away.

@billfish678

Dude, if your using Lost for real life guidance I really feel for ya

About the cards. I can see what your are saying and thinking there. For good or at least possible reasons, you want her to know the cards got there Friday, not Wed. And her knowing that might make things better, not worse.

There is the downside that letting her know you got em Friday can just come off as complaining.

So, you are IMO, kinda between a rock and hard place on that one. Just try to be very diplomatic in telling her you got them on Friday. Maybe telling her that you appreciate the cards, you noticed and appreciate that she took the extra effort to mail em from the airport, in the hopes that you would get it Wed. If she had good intentioned alterior motives, that lets her know she wasnt ignored, its just her plan failed before it could even start.

If you just say “we got the cards Friday” that could be read many different ways.

Best of luck. And stay away from any strange numbered hatches.

The window of opportunity for an email is closing fast. I understand what you’re saying though.

[ENugent]

@fervour

Crystal apparently sent the cards Monday. From the postmark, I think she sent them from the airport. I think she was probably hoping they would arrive on Wednesday before Thanksgiving. I’m thinking she was hoping to influence Nathan into stopping in. I think it would be a courtesy to let her know that the cards arrived on Friday after Thanksgiving. So there was no chance for Nathan to have reacted to the card before she flew back to her home.

Then you phrase it - “Hey, got your card on Friday - thanks! I hope you enjoyed your holidays.” Putting the “Friday” bit into its own sentence makes it seem like you’re complaining about it, while putting it in the “got your card” line makes it just sound like you thought the sentence wasn’t long enough yet.

[Cat_Whisperer]

For what it’s worth, I’ll give you my version of acting assertively - assertive means you don’t let other people step on your toes. Aggressive means you go step on someone else’s toes. It may help you and Nathan figure out how to deal with his family to keep those ideas in mind - try to aim for assertive, and not go over the line into aggressive.

[lissener]

That is a very pissy, passive aggressive letter. Do not send it.

Have your partner rewrite it for you and rethink it. But still don’t send it.

[Cat_Whisperer]

@Cat_Whisperer

For what it’s worth, I’ll give you my version of acting assertively - assertive means you don’t let other people step on your toes. Aggressive means you go step on someone else’s toes. It may help you and Nathan figure out how to deal with his family to keep those ideas in mind - try to aim for assertive, and not go over the line into aggressive.

I forgot to say, if they can’t deal with assertive, then it most definitely is their problem. Everyone is allowed to protect their own toes.

[UncleRojelio]

And besides, your narrative is hard to follow and will probably be misunderstood.

[lissener]

@fervour

Again, if you missed it, Nathan wants me to send the letter inspite of your responses. If you think that he should be the one that sends a letter, what should he do? He can’t co-opt my text. It doesn’t sound like him.

All due respect, then Nathan is a coward: he knows that this is a fight-picking email, not a resolution-seeking email, but he wants YOU to do his fighting for him.

This makes sending it an even worse idea.

[eleanorigby]

If Nathan is so hell bent on sending this letter, you both need to go over it and make it from Nathan, not you. This is Nathan’s problem.

I would not send the second pissy email. You cannot control other people–it’s her stamp she’s wasting, not yours. While I don’t get the hidden message (or the logic) behind sending 2 Xmas cards to people who share an address, that is her choice.

There is no way you can come out of this not being blamed for turning Nathan’s head or being the bad guy etc if you decide to send these letters as written.

Truly, are you and Nathan so wanting to be with this nasty seeming family that badly during the holidays? It sounds like hell to me and I’m straight!

[salinqmind]

I just wanted to say I remember that call to Dr. Laura, about one partner being passive with their family but willing to have their spouse go to war for them. I know a married couple where the husband succeeded in keeping his wife’s horrible, dysfunctional, white trash family somewhat at bay for decades. There was a reasonable amount contact, but they weren’t allowed to drag the wife down into their dramas and traumas. She had a good “normal” life but they resented it and some of them just cut her out of their miserable lives altogether. It was probably for the best, but it still hurt her.

[G.Pie]

I think it’s a mistake to store resentment and then spill it in list form once it reaches critical mass. Any way just to make a new resolution to deal with problems as they crop up? The double greeting card thing is a slap in the face and should be dealt with, not added to the growing list. Why not send an email just dealing with that one issue?

[BrassyPhrase]

deleted

[Duckster]

@suranyi

I just wanted to say that the issue is not just about homophobia, but about family relations. If a couple, homosexual or heterosexual, is having problem with the family on one side, it must be the partner on that side who deals with it.

This.

Nathan has two problems. His sister, either acting alone or as the surrogate for the rest of the family, and Nathan himself. Only Nathan can – and should – act to fix either, or both of them.

[amtriska]

Why do you want to address the confrontational emails to the sister? It looks like the parents are the problem, not her. It doesn’t seem like the sister’s made any effort to exclude you – correct me if I’m wrong. Actually, she may have thought that sending you your own card was making a special effort to include you! Maybe she doesn’t know anything about how gay couples function. Maybe she doesn’t know that you and Nathan are a single household.

My solution (keeping in mind that I don’t know everything about Nathan’s family) is for you not to contact the parents at all. Sending a “thanks for the card” letter to the sister is a good idea. Other than that, if there’s any confrontation, it should be done by Nathan, and only in response to a serious incident. Maybe you should both take a few days to cool off and not talk or think about his family situation. I’m sure it’s really stressing you both out.

[stpauler]

Fervour, it sounds like you’re both on board with not having you sending the original letter. That’s a good step.

As for the xmas cards, I would take that as a nice step that she INCLUDED you and sent you one as opposed to just sending one card to Nathan and none addressed to you. If it’s a slight, it’s a really nitpicky one. So let it slide. If anything, reply with a card from BOTH OF YOU. In fact, that’s what my SO sends out; a picture of him and me and our three kids, so there’s no ambiguity that it’s coming from one family.

As for all of the little and big events in the past, leave them there. Focus only on the present and the future. Give everyone a clean slate for now (as hard as that may be to do). Here’s the big part, have Nathan address any new problems as they come up.

You know why they are treating him like this? Because he lets them. Sorry, he’s being a bit of a doormat. My SO used to be the same way. We would go to family functions and his older sister (she’s 47 now, he’s 40) would pick on him. She is a bit of a verbal bully and she tried it on me once and I gave it right back at her. I showed him that yes, one does have to stand up for one’s self. Next time, he tried it out and it was kinda cute as he was definitely not as adroit at it. She had stopped teasing him for a while and then, out of habit, tried it again. I nudged him and he zinged her back. She doesn’t do it that often anymore and my SO is definitely more at peace.

So yeah, next time they invite only Nathan to a family get-together, he needs to ask to bring you with. Instead of making an ultimatum, put them on the defensive and make them show why fervour is not invited. Don’t blame them for not inviting you yet, wait for them to hang themselves. And if they say it’s because you’re gay, Nathan can then state that since fervour ain’t comin’, Nathan ain’t either.

Yeah, it could suck. It does suck. I haven’t talked to my dad in years because of this. I have an open door policy with a rule posted on the threshold. If he’s ready to accept me and my partner, then he can come back into my life. The decision I left up to him. I, however, refuse to change my partner just to make him happy. His happiness will not trump mine.