When Eliezer Ben Yehuda revived the Hebrew language, he ruled that the Sephardic pronunciation would always take precedence. That includes the letter ת pronounced as “t”, dagesh (dot) or not. The only Israelis who pronounce it “th” are enclaves of Yiddish-speaking Haredim.
How do Israeli Arabic speakers pronounce ث and ذ ?
Properly, I assume, just as Israeli English speakers are capable of pronouncing ‘th’.
OK. Israel is kind of a crossroads between regions that do and do not pronounce those consonants “properly” (in Arabic); some sources report a difference between rural and urban speakers, and I was wondering how it works out in practice, especially in light of access to global media, and of possible influence from Sephardic Hebrew pronunciation.
Sorry about the hijack!
Go for it. You need a community and you have found one that will welcome you and not make any unreasonable demands on you. My parents had no religious beliefs (although they put me through bar mitzvah because the relatives expected it) but after they became empty nesters, they joined a synagogue (reform) for the social and communal aspects. The rabbi told me that he was an atheist too, but viewed being a rabbi as a kind of social work. Anyway you should find it very easy going.
I didn’t know that Chasidim proselytized. There is one converted (from Orthodox) Chasid I know and he is constantly getting static from his community because he wasn’t born to it. But that is another issue.
Now its not as fun anymore.
Lubavitchers actively proselytize amongst non-Hasidic Jews, so your friend is clearly not a Lubavitcher. They’re looking for people not born to it.
The other sects generally don’t proselytize and “converts” from other Jewish traditions may not be too welcome - or even accepted at all.
As long as they are proselytizing, why are they specifically seeking non-Hasidic Jews? Why not fill the ranks with some Muslims, Roman Catholics, and Mormons as well?
LOL.
It is amazing how persistent the “we must bring all others into our group!!!” mindset is, isn’t it?
The Lubavichers are seeking wayward Jews to come back to a more Jewish way of living. They are NOT seeking converts to Judaism. To a Lubavicher, the most secular Jew imaginable is STILL a Jew. Even a Jew who has converted to another religion is STILL a Jew. They are looking for other Jews, not non-Jews. And by “Jews” that’s people Jewish under their definitions: born of a Jewish woman or having undergone an approved conversion process. Which means a lot of Jewish converts under other forms of Judaism are not recognized by them as being Jewish, and someone such as myself would not be considered Jewish at all by them, even if that’s half my genetic inheritance. By Lubavicher standards, Madeleine Albright, who had no idea she had any Jewish heritage until middle age, who was raised Roman Catholic, is as Jewish as any other Jew born to a Jewish mother and I, who knew from my earliest years that my father and his family were Jewish, am not Jewish at all. If my mother had converted then any children born after her conversion would be Jewish - meaning it might have been that half my siblings would be gentile and half Jewish by Hasidic viewpoint… if they had accepted her conversion (they might have - my father’s family was fully Orthodox. But that also might have been why mom couldn’t go through with it - mom was never what you’d call religious.)
A non-Jew seeking to convert would be discouraged by the Lubavachiers from doing so. They are not interested in gaining gentiles. It is possible to convert to Judaism, even the Hasidic varieties, but it is not made easy because they only want really, really driven people to join the family.
This is confusing to Christians and Muslims with their “must rescue other souls! Must bring others into our group!” mindset. It’s a completely different view of the world.
Which is one of the things I find very restful about hanging out among Jews - they’re happy to let me be myself, they’re happy to have me as a friend, and they won’t try to change my beliefs. I’m welcome to learn as much or as little about their religion and culture as I want without any need to become one of them.
(Of course, the whole is-she-Jewish-or-isn’t-she is a bit confused in my case, but these days even the most Orthodox grok that folks such as myself are related to the Jews and suffer much of the same discrimination and oppression. In the US, that translates to “not much” for the most part, but in other places and times it’s been pretty ugly.)
Extremely well said! And dead-on accurate.
Yes, very accurate. The one formal convert I know well knows a lot more about Jewish law and the 613 mitzvot than I ever did or will. More than her husband for that matter. The conversion process is long and hard. One thing that Broomstick said surprises me. I assumed that her conversion would bring their son into the tribe, but apparently not. The curious thing is that they had sent him to a Jewish day school and it was his experiences there that got his parents interested. Now they are fairly devout (they keep kosher but only be being vegetarian–you gotta see a carrot stick used as a lamb shank at a seder to believe it), while the son is not at all interested.
Yes, the converts tend to be VERY Jewish in regards to the rituals and laws. If they weren’t so inclined they probably wouldn’t complete the process.
I actually learned far more about Judaism from my mom than my dad, despite my dad being raised in an Orthodox household and my mother being a very lapsed Catholic. But at one point my mom was seriously considering conversion and seriously studied, whereas for my dad it was just family stuff he grew up with that he never really had much interest in (rumored as early as age 10 to be sneaking off for a ham and swiss sandwich at a local deli, and allegedly only got through his bar mitzvah because his older brother was holding up phonetic cue cards to assist him - both family stories of doubtful accuracy, but I’m not sure accuracy was the point as much as illustrating how serious dad wasn’t. And he did marry a gentile, after all.)
I do know a gentile woman who converted to a very strict Orthodox Judaism who is entirely accepted by her community, very devout, and finds it all very fulfilling. It worked out very well for her. But such people are rarity.
My (perhaps limited or wrong) understanding is that some or many of the Orthodox groups believe that the Messiah will come only when all Jews all over the world fulfill all the 600+ Jewish laws perfectly. Which explains why the Lubavichers are so keen to find lapsed Jews - they have to get them obeying the Jewish law so the Messiah will get here! It’s also why they don’t want converts - if you convert someone they are Jewish and there are no take-backs… if they later go back to their original faith, or stop keeping up with all those rules, then, oy vey it’s going to be that much longer before the Messiah comes! It’s too great a risk! You want only those converts who will be more dedicated than the average Jew so you have more Jews being observant rather than fewer.
If I have that wrong I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will be along to set that right.
I’m not super-knowledgeable, but to my understanding, you’re correct with regard to the hasidic/messianic orthodox sects.
Those stories about your dad (hilarious, btw) reminded me of a true incident that happened with an old friend who was Catholic. He looked Jewish, had a typically Jewish name, and had just gone to work for a company primarily comprised of non-orthodox but observant Jews.
They went to get sandwiches at the Jewish deli across the street, and he, not thinking, ordered a roast beef with swiss cheese. They told him they couldn’t make that for him because it wasn’t kosher. He said “okay, how about a roast beef with a quarter-pound of sliced swiss on the side?” They said “Nope. 'Cause we know what you’re going to do with it!!” 
lol a friend I had as a kid at school lived in a kosher foster home … no cheese on the sandwiches or burgers hed pay for the mystery meat cheeseburgers that we tried not to eat for lunch ,
apparently foster mom found his stash and that led to an discussion with the social worker and mom because she thought it was a "there not feeding him enough " (which is a common thing in foster care) he was like no he liked cheeseburgers … so he got to go to a burger place once a week to scarf all the cheese burgers he could eat (which was a big mac or two )
About Jews being the Chosen People, I think it was Tevye the Milkman who asked, “Dear God, I know we’re your Chosen People. Just once, could you choose someone else?”
Hmm. If it was really a kosher restaurant, it would have had either meat or dairy, but not both. Unless it was his co-workers that stopped him, and not the restaurant itself.
Wasn’t a restaurant. Just a deli that made sandwiches and stuff. Some delis have both, though of course not glatt kosher ones.
I tend to think “Chosen People” is probably better translated as “Contractually Obligated People.”
“Chosen people” but chosen for what?… it’s not necessarily an honor or something good, right?