See, Brooms? You’re totally a member of the Tribe. I always knew you were knowledgeable about things Jewish-ish, but your entries in this thread demonstrate your understanding of so many of the nuances - and of course most importantly- you know that there ARE nuances and it’s lota of fun to haggle over them. Whether you choose to be more religious-ish or not is a side matter.
Okay, a kosher-or-not story: I was in the supermarket dairy aisle with my best bud, and she was asking me questions about kosher laws. I don’t keep kosher. It was just curiosity on her part.
She said “okay, so butter comes from milk, which comes from a cow, so it’s considered meat, right?”
I just about hit the floor laughing and she was all like :smack::smack::smack: when she realized what she had just said.
“I guess I was overthinking that, huh?”
“Yep.”
Please: bagels, lox, and cream cheese. Yes, fish is parve.
Can anyone explain how they went from a prohibition of cooking a kid in its mother’s mild to a general prohibition of having meat and milk in the same meal (or within four hours, IIRC).
I really do suspect that a lot of the elaborate rule following has more to do with people than commandments of G-d (I figured in a Jewish-themed thread I’d follow Jewish convention on that one). If I recall, the reason some Jews don’t mix fish and dairy is to prevent the appearance of mixing meat and milk, basically, so someone else doesn’t get a mistaken idea of what’s going on.
My understanding is that (as the joke above implies) it’s the repetition of the commandment that really triggered the ancient sages. It’s in there three times! It’s gotta be super important!
So they ‘built a fence’ around the commandment to make sure nobody stumbled their way into breaking what was obviously a Really Big Deal.
Actually, it’s most likely a mistake on the part of Rabbi Yosef Karo, who compiled and codified Jewish law several hundred years ago. He wrote not to eat fish with milk. Many commentators and codifiers (both in his own time and ever since) pointed out that he most likely made a mistake, and that he meant meat and milk.
However, since many or most Sephardim follow Rabbi Karo’s writings, they refrain from fish and milk. (Although, some allow fish and milk to be eaten as long as they were not cooked together, so bagel-lox-cream cheese would be ok, but not tuna-fish casserole.)
There’s also the obscure kosher law forbidding eating meat from the thigh, which arose from Genesis 32:24-32, wherein Jacob wrestles with an angel at the ford at Mahanaim. The pronouns are so garbled that you can’t tell who did what to whom, but Jacob ended up with his leg out of joint.
Speaking of Jacob, one cool thing I really like is that God changed Jacob’s name to Israel, which means “wrestles with God.” (A more knowledgeable person can expound on the etymology.) I think this describes the Jewish identity well, namely, wrestling with God. I know I do and it suits me.
I thought it was that that the sciatic nerve and the blood vessels had to be removed form the thigh to make it kosher than that’s such an involved, annoying, and difficult process that they Jews pretty much don’t bother? Or did I hear wrong?
This is true. Yet again, it depends on which community you belong to. It is hard to properly remove the sciatic nerve and fat and blood vessels, but there are expert butchers who do this. It’s called nikkur (Hebrew) or traibering (Yiddish). Read more about it here.
Because the last of the fall holidays will begin in about 2 hours, I will wish everyone a chag samayach and Shabbat Shalom.
Lunch was an egg and cheese casserole, a French toast casserole (which actually I liked better than most French toast), hash browns, and a fruit mix for dessert. I’m still in the “long standing members interrogate the new person” stage, but it’s OK, I expected that. One of the gentlemen at our table and I did some reminiscing about living in Chicago. The next table over was have a rousing discussion of politics and our current President and Vice President (remember, that guy used to be our governor in this state) which was becoming progressively louder and more animated for a bit. Refreshing to be among people whose political views are more in line with my own than what I typically hear. I am rediscovering how stressful I find eating where I don’t control the menu and have been having a snack before lunch so if I have to skip the meal it’s not a huge issue, but then I tend to eat less than a full portion. I don’t want to become The Allergic One too early on but with next Wednesday being baked ziti I may have to simply request a tomato free salad and extra garlic bread. Which I’m totally OK with, but someone already expressed concern I wasn’t eating enough. >sigh<
Movie was The Time Traveler’s Wife, which was not what any of us expected it to be but we all agreed was a good movie.
Next Monday is a trip to Starved Rock, which bus is already full, so it will be just my knitting “Stitch N Bitch” group that day, and next Wednesday is, as I said, baked ziti which I can’t eat followed by flu shots, which I am not supposed to get and if I did the driver for the old folks who need a ride might need to apply her EMT skills to me instead of the elderly. So… might just skip next week entirely although I’d really like to stay for the lunch and socializing. Food allergies can really throw a wrench into social events.
The week after is a trip to Giordano’s for lunch - which, despite being a pizza place I can do because they have a surprisingly good selection of salads - and on the Wednesday with a lecture by a rabbi, which actually sounds interesting. On November first the post-lunch portion is supposed to be Tai Chi.
I have noticed that attendance is variable, clearly people show up or don’t show up based on menu and/or activity. The group definitely skews towards older and post-retirement folks, which isn’t too surprisingly for a group that meets on weekdays.
I’m finding this thread very interesting. I work in a store owned by Hassidic Jews, and one of the things they are strictest about is no meat in the actual store. Any food containing meat has to be brought into the store thoroughly wrapped, and only opened in the break room. Only neutral and diary foods (fortunately, that includes coffee with cream) can be taken to the register.
I continued (and still continue) to go to the twice-weekly lunch when my schedule permits and I am no longer The Newest Person. We have a chef originally from Mexico whose offerings range from kosher Mexican food to a traditional seder in a largely Eastern European/American style.
Oh, yes, the seder - the Jewish Federation of Northwest Indiana had a seder for the lunch on this past Wednesday. That was actually before Passover (which starts sundown on Friday) and took a few short-cuts - consider it a dress rehearsal of sorts. The local Chabad rabbi ran the show (he’s a young guy with seven kids and counting). There were a number of non-Jewish guests (the very interesting lady sitting next to me was a 90 year old member of the Episcopalians) as well who were cautioned at the start that yes, we WOULD have an actual meal in here somewhere but there was a bunch of ceremonial/traditional things to go through. Also, few of us really wanted to down four full glasses of wine then try to drive home and there was non-fermented grape juice available for those who don’t drink alcohol. I’ve haven’t been to a Seder of any sort for decades, and I was surprised how much I remember. The horseradish was not the dyed-pink-with-beet-juice I remember from childhood but had actual beets chopped/grated with the horseradish, which was a bit different. New-to-seder folks were cautioned about it, then most of the veterans commenced to eat it by the spoonful.
The also have a “loneliness group” for those who have lost loved ones that is currently composed of widows which, again, I am attending as my schedule allows. I find it’s a group I’m comfortable with, which is rare, and it is helpful to have people to talk to who have gone through a similar loss.
One of the old ladies has adopted me - she told me that (and everyone else) a couple weeks ago though we’re debating whether she is my Jewish grandmother or my Jewish mother. The Very Interesting Episcopalian Woman Next to Me at Seder has likewise announced an intention to adopt me as granddaughter.
I was shopping for my seder Wednesday evening, and I couldn’t find the pink grated horseradish of my childhood. I like to serve both sliced and grated horseradish. The supermarket helpfully had a nice selection of whole horseradish roots, and I found some “horseradish sauce” (which had corn syrup and other stuff my guests might not want for passover) in it. I eventually found some prepared horseradish at Whole Paycheck that was just grated horseradish in vinegar.
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