International Mafia

[Pleonast]

@Baffle

This is a good point. Pleonast hasn’t redeemed himself in my eyes – and since I don’t know when the day is going to end, I want to get this out there in time.
vote Pleonast

Do you have specific reasons for voting for me?

And you still have not addressed any of the reasons I’ve mode for voting for you.

@Baffle

My main argument against Pleonast is his elevation of minor scraps of contrary evidence to certainty, in the tone of his posts. Calling out a scum based on his tone is an ephemeral argument, but it’s the closest thing I can get to a good one on Day One. Yes, the mass claim argument was what first started my suspicion, but more has come behind it.

Ah, actual “reason”. You do not like my approach. I can’t really do much about that.

@Baffle

It’s also possible that a scummy Pleonast is being defended by townies who have bought into his argument. Perhaps the scum are actually all involved in the Shadowfacts / Idle Thoughts debate and ignoring us entirely.

Since you’ve not offered any explanation for my arguments against you, you should not be surprised that others are voting for you.

@Astral_Rejection

Second point: I don’t see the benefit of forcing people to choose between traveler and non-traveler.

Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that players claim “traveller” or “non-traveller”. I am advocating that each player describe their travel capabilities. If you’re unsure of the difference, consider my travel capabilities; they do not fit neatly into traveller or non-traveller categories.

@Baffle

Well, there’s no sense getting lynched. I know I’m town, and I’m not sure about ShadowFacts.

This is a poor reason to vote.

Town players without powers should never vote for self-preservation. They are the least valuable players. It’s better to be lynched with your finger pointed at someone else, so that others can use the lynchee’s insights once their alignment is confirmed.

Town players with powers might want to vote for self-preservation. But they should only do so once they’ve actually claimed. And even then, it can be better to be lynched with their suspicions posted, rather than try to force an unknown to be lynched.

Scum players of course put their own survival at a premium, so while generally want to vote for self-preservation. Another reason why townies should not.

Summary: vote for whoever you think is most likely to be scum.

[MHaye]

So we have two lynch bandwagons rolling; one on Baffle and the other on Shadowfacts.

Before I comment on those players, there is Pleo and his out-of-the-gate claim. Nowadays, that seems to be Pleo’s way of playing. In this case, it appears to have been a correct move, given that there has been a gut-level wave of suspicion against travellers. If Pleo had not claimed, how do we think his sudden departure from London at +24:00 would have been received? Pleo would have had to defend travelling or get gaoled pdq, and that might have led to him being gaoled anyway.

Pleo might, of course, be a travelling assassin required to kill every Night he spends in either city, then leave the next Morning (in which case his claim is a perfect cover).

As far as I can tell, the foundation of the case on Shadowfacts is that, after removing the debate / misunderstanding between Shadowfacts and Idle Thoughts, ShadowFacts made a post similar to many that have been made by other anti-Town players in the past. The upside of that is that that sort of thing has been observed as an anti-Town tell in the past; however it is not a certain pointer. The downside is that it is pretty thin. Nevertheless, it is there, and is worthy of attention.

Baffle… well, baffles me a bit. I’ll just have to ask him to trust me when I say that “lynch the new player” is not my favourite style of play. I’d rather get them hooked on the fun of the game first. (I have seen a few players decide, after a Day 1 pile-on, that we are not fun to play with.) That doesn’t mean I’ll decline to lynch a new player if they do something that makes me think them a member of the ICR. It’s just that I have this voice in the back of my head that warns me to give them the benefit of the doubt.

The one thing that stuck out to me was characterising Pleo’s behaviour as “suspicious” and then claiming that this was neutral. I have to disagree; if you call something suspicious, you think it is an indicator of anti-Town behaviour. That

As for his vote on ShadowFacts; that is simply correct Day 1 play no matter what alignment Baffle is. Unless Baffle has cause to know ShadowFacts is more valuable to Baffle’s side than Baffle is, they should vote in a way to preserve their own life.

I’d like to add that I am surprised that neither have claimed. They’re both in serious danger of getting lynched, and neither have claimed. That makes me wonder, particularly in the case of ShadowFacts, whether they have something to hide.

I’ve got to cart the rubbish out, which will take me ten minutes or so. I’ll use that to decide on a vote.

[sachertorte]

I have a call at 4PM. London Day will still end at 4:00PM EST (in 30 minutes) regardless. All votes and actions must have a valid timestamp to be valid. I hope to get to T12:00 as soon as possible.

[ShadowFacts]

@MHaye

I’d like to add that I am surprised that neither have claimed. They’re both in serious danger of getting lynched, and neither have claimed. That makes me wonder, particularly in the case of ShadowFacts, whether they have something to hide.

I’ve got to cart the rubbish out, which will take me ten minutes or so. I’ll use that to decide on a vote.

Well, if it will help you make the right choice, I will claim: I am Vanilla - here’s my PM:

You are Vanilla Town
Citizenship: United Kingdom
Win Condition: Arrest all members of the International Crime Ring

You are not eligible to travel.

You begin the game in London, United Kingdom.

[ShadowFacts]

Also, since you are here and going to vote, I will tie it up, and you can cast the decider.

Unvote Mrs. McGinty

Vote Baffle

(FYI, I’ll undo that if it looks like you won’t be back in time).

[MHaye]

The more I think about this, the more surprised I am that neither have roleclaimed. The lack of a claim points to one of two things; either they are Town and don’t think a true claim will save them, or they’re non-Town with no reasonable chance of drafting up a cover role.

… and ShadowFacts claims while I am drafting.

I’m going to vote for the player who has made me marginally more suspicious out of these two.

Vote Baffle.

Basically, I find his calling Pleo’s behaviour suspicious and then backing off just marginally more suspicious than ShadowFacts’ apparent equivocation over what is anti-Town and his “Back to Usual affle” statement in post 84 (I think it was 84.)

[Mrs_McGinty]

@ShadowFacts

I hate, hate, hate late bandwagon votes with no reason. And no, just a passing reference to someone else’s “assessment” doesn’t count. It’s the ultimate cop-out, there is no accountability, and it’s extremely anti-Town. What, precisely, did you find compelling about the case? What other thoughts have you had about my posts this game? If I do end up in gaol, I really hope everyone looks back at this vote with much skepticism. (Hell, I hope you all look at it NOW, but I understand that you don’t know if I’m Town right now, so my exhortation will have less weight).

Meh. It’s the first day with sod all to go on and a straight choice between two players I don’t know.

[sachertorte]

T0:00 post #80
Baffle(6) : Pleonast(128) Romanic(208) Wolverine(211) MentalGuy(232) ShadowFacts(245) MHaye(246)
ShadowFacts(6): NAF1138(131) Astral Rejection(205) DrainBead(213) Baffle(230) Mrs McGinty(231) Anonymous(248)
Pleonast(0): [del]Astral Rejection(158 - 180)[/del] [del]Baffle(207-230)[/del]
Idle Thoughts(0): [del]ShadowFacts(194-224)[/del]
Mrs McGinty(0): [del]ShadowFacts(238-245)[/del]

A Warrant for the Arrest of Baffle has been issued by the City of London at T12:00 effective immediately.

[Scuba_Ben]

good Morning, Wellington NZ! I hope we all have a wonderful Day!

Except for any local members of the ICR.

Since Mod sachertorte said local Dawn/Dusk happens whether or not e makes eir Dusk post, I feel it’s okay for us to start game discussions. (If I’m wrong, I’m sure sach will whack me with a wallaby.)

For the moment, I’ll just start with some general thoughts on travel. We have established that some people CAN travel, and we have a claim of someone who MUST travel. In and of itself, I consider travel a null tell. I count travel ability as something other than plain town; I’ve been marking it up separately.

I started a spreadsheet of votes, claims, etc. It’s open for all to edit, so please help keep it up to date and check it for accuracy: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AgIvyL7x2WUIdF9PQmxraGhrZnJwZGFMNkZqM1FzZHc&hl=en&authkey=CMKc3JIH#gid=0

TODO: Update the spreadsheet with who starts this Morning in transit from WLG to LHR.

Getting back to the travel element, I think anybody who travels ought to make some statement as to why. I’ll give a pass to Idle Thoughts and Suburban Plankton for this, as they started the game in transit. I am curious about who starts Today (NZ) in transit, and whether it was part of their initial role message or a Night 1 (NZ) action.

AOP: There’s the Dusk 1 (UK) post, no result as yet. But I am HEAVILY concerned about that vote “Anonymous (248)”.

[sachertorte]

T12:00 Monday 13 December 2010 London Night – Wellington Day

The sun sets in London and rises in Wellington. The denizens of London voice their concerns over the actions of ShadowFacts and collectively agree that such Evil must not be allowed to roam the peaceful streets of London.

Baffle, Dual Citizen of New Zealand and the United Kingdom, has been arrested.

The denizens of Wellington wake from a restful sleep to find something decidedly not restful.

Url Fphzzl Fphz!
V unir tbbq arjf, onq arjf, tbbq arjf naq zber onq arjf.

Gur tbbq arjf vf guvf nffubyr zbqrengbe vf yrggvat hf xvyy fbzrbar va Jryyvatgba guvf svefg Avtug.
Gur onq arjf vf jr unir gb xvyy gur qreryvpg cynlre jub arire fubjrq hc.
Gur tbbq arjf vf ur jnf nffvtarq n ebyr ng enaqbz, whfg yvxr rirelbar ryfr.
Gur onq arjf vf gung ebyr vf Inavyyn Gbja.

PngVaNFhvg, Inavyyn Gbja naq pvgvmra bs gur Havgrq Xvatqbz, vf qrnq.

Fvtarq,
Pevzvany Znfgrezvaq

The following Players are in London and are therefore not able to post:
Astral Rejection
Drain Bead
MentalGuy
MHaye
Mrs McGinty
NAF1138
Pleonast
Rin Twisted
Romanic
ShadowFacts
Wolverine
You may vote for anyone alive in the game, but the arrest warrant issued will only be effective in London.

The following Players have been arrested in London and are therefore not able to post or vote ever again:
Baffle

The following Players are in Wellington and are therefore eligible to post and to vote:
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
GuiriEnEspaña
Mahaloth
Natlaw
Normal Phase
peekercpa
Scuba Ben
special ed
USCDiver
Idle Thoughts
Suburban Plankton

The following Players are in Transit to London and are therefore able to post but unable to vote:
<none>

London Day will end at 21:00 GMT Friday 17 December 2010.
Wellington Night will end at 10:00AM NZDT Tuesday 18 December 2010.

(Friday 4:00PM EST 17 December 2010 for the Yanks)

[Scuba_Ben]

And here is the ROT13 decrypt of sach’s cunningly encrypted message:

@MOD sachertorte

Hey Scummy Scum!
I have good news, bad news, good news and more bad news.

The good news is this asshole moderator is letting us kill someone in Wellington this first Night.
The bad news is we have to kill the derelict player who never showed up.
The good news is he was assigned a role at random, just like everyone else.
The bad news is that role is Vanilla Town.

CatInASuit, Vanilla Town and citizen of the United Kingdom, is dead.

Signed,
Criminal Mastermind

[sachertorte]

T12:00 Monday 13 December 2010 London Night – Wellington Day

The sun sets in London and rises in Wellington. The denizens of London voice their concerns over the actions of Baffle and collectively agree that such Evil must not be allowed to roam the peaceful streets of London.

Baffle, Dual Citizen of New Zealand and the United Kingdom, has been arrested.

The denizens of Wellington wake from a restful sleep to find something decidedly not restful.

Url Fphzzl Fphz!
V unir tbbq arjf, onq arjf, tbbq arjf naq zber onq arjf.

Gur tbbq arjf vf guvf nffubyr zbqrengbe vf yrggvat hf xvyy fbzrbar va Jryyvatgba guvf svefg Avtug.
Gur onq arjf vf jr unir gb xvyy gur qreryvpg cynlre jub arire fubjrq hc.
Gur tbbq arjf vf ur jnf nffvtarq n ebyr ng enaqbz, whfg yvxr rirelbar ryfr.
Gur onq arjf vf gung ebyr vf Inavyyn Gbja.

PngVaNFhvg, Inavyyn Gbja naq pvgvmra bs gur Havgrq Xvatqbz, vf qrnq.

Fvtarq,
Pevzvany Znfgrezvaq

The following Players are in London and are therefore not able to post:
Astral Rejection
Drain Bead
MentalGuy
MHaye
Mrs McGinty
NAF1138
Pleonast
Rin Twisted
Romanic
ShadowFacts
Wolverine

The following Players have been arrested in London and are therefore not able to post or vote ever again:
Baffle

The following Players are in Wellington and are therefore eligible to post and to vote:
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies
GuiriEnEspaña
Mahaloth
Natlaw
Normal Phase
peekercpa
Scuba Ben
special ed
USCDiver
Idle Thoughts
Suburban Plankton
You may vote for anyone alive in the game, but the arrest warrant issued will only be effective in Wellington.
The following Players are in Transit to London and are therefore able to post but unable to vote:
<none>

London Day will end at 21:00 GMT Friday 17 December 2010.
Wellington Night will end at 10:00AM NZDT Tuesday 18 December 2010.

(Friday 4:00PM EST 17 December 2010 for the Yanks)

[GuiriEnEspana]

@Scuba_Ben

And here is the ROT13 decrypt of sach’s cunningly encrypted message:

Thanks for the decipher. I suppose this is a formality to make up for the missing 24th player - it would have been pretty cruel to let scum kill someone who hadn’t yet had a chance to post however I’m curious about CIAS’ citizenship - if he was Vanilla Town and, even if he could travel, he didn’t have enough time to travel to Wellington, how did the scum manage to kill him?

@sachertorte

The following Players are in London and are therefore not able to post:

@sachertorte

• Only living players may post game relevant discussion to the game thread.

Sachertorte, can players in London post fluff during their Night or it there a complete post restriction?

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Scuba_Ben

And here is the ROT13 decrypt of sach’s cunningly encrypted message:

Originally Posted by MOD sachertorte
Hey Scummy Scum!
I have good news, bad news, good news and more bad news.

The good news is this asshole moderator is letting us kill someone in Wellington this first Night.
The bad news is we have to kill the derelict player who never showed up.
The good news is he was assigned a role at random, just like everyone else.
The bad news is that role is Vanilla Town.

CatInASuit, Vanilla Town and citizen of the United Kingdom, is dead.

Signed,
Criminal Mastermind

OK, now, I’m even more confused…or maybe I’m not…

CatInASuit, as far as I know, was not playing in this game. I’m pretty sure that’s the case since he (she?) was identified as a backup Moderator.

The last Player List (Post 65) showed 23 names, out of 25 spots. MHaye was not in that list, so he makes 24. So I’m thinking that the “derelict player who never showed up” represents Player 25, and was assigned to CatInASuit solely for the purpose of being killed (not gaoled)?

In other words, everything in the encrypted message was purely colour, and is technically irrelevant…I think.

[Scuba_Ben]

Jolly good Morning to you, Guiri. I was beginning to worry I was the only player up & about here in NZ.

Two additional thoughts:

• I think we ought to arrest someone local Today, for the same reason discussed in London: It gives us information on someone immediately, as opposed to waiting for that person to travel here.
• The Dusk vote from Anonymous suggests somebody has an extra vote power, or an international vote power, or some other way to add an untracked vote.

[sachertorte]

@GuiriEnEspana

Sachertorte, can players in London post fluff during their Night or it there a complete post restriction?

Players in London should not post at all. This game is confusing enough as it is, I don’t want people to be confused by who is where.
But I suppose I can allow minimal fluff in PURPLE. But really, stay quiet unless you have something to say with such biting wit that we would all be remiss to have lost it.

[Suburban_Plankton]

@Scuba_Ben

Jolly good Morning to you, Guiri. I was beginning to worry I was the only player up & about here in NZ.

Hey, I’m here! I know, I wasn’t at the party with the rest of you last Night, but that’ only 'cause I’ve just flown in from London…

…and boy are my arms tired!

I will understand if you all vote to gaol me based purely on the fact that I made this joke, but I’ve been waiting for a week to use it and I just couldn’t help myself.

[GuiriEnEspana]

@Scuba_Ben

Jolly good Morning to you, Guiri. I was beginning to worry I was the only player up & about here in NZ.

Two additional thoughts:

• I think we ought to arrest someone local Today, for the same reason discussed in London: It gives us information on someone immediately, as opposed to waiting for that person to travel here.
• The Dusk vote from Anonymous suggests somebody has an extra vote power, or an international vote power, or some other way to add an untracked vote.

Morning to you too, and welcome Suburban, hope you had a nice trip (I remember that joke from Garfield). I wonder if Idle’s luggage has been delayed.

Rin Twisted was the only player who didn’t vote in London - the anonymous vote may be related… He was curious to see the vote count though:

@Rin_Twisted

mod, can we get a vote count?

[sachertorte]

@Suburban_Plankton

In other words, everything in the encrypted message was purely colour, and is technically irrelevant…I think.

Yes. Colour. Just a bit of fun, but with relevant information:

Scum was required to kill the 24th player.
The 24th player was assigned a role at random like everyone else.
That randomly assigned role was Vanilla Town.

The post is there because the information needs to be public.

[Scuba_Ben]

@Suburban_Plankton

Hey, I’m here! I know, I wasn’t at the party with the rest of you last Night, but that’ only 'cause I’ve just flown in from London…

…and boy are my arms tired!

Glad to see you finally made it through customs.

I don’t recall OTTOMH whether you had claimed anything, but I think you hadn’t. This is meaningful to me in that if we HAD had people start Today in transit to LHR, I would suspect one of the group of players-starting-in-transit would be ICR Scum.

But since only two players started in transit, that’s not a meaningful sample size.

In other matters, I’m curious what people think of the various claims to date. ShadowFacts’s claim of vanilla town is the weakest claim possible. Though in Lost Mafia, I claimed that as my role, and I spoke truthfully. So some VT claims are honest.

The claim of compulsory travel (I forget who, it’s in my spreadsheet, OTTOMH I think it was Pleo) ought to be straightforward to test in good time.