I’m sorry that Craigslist permits users to send un-monitored attachments to each other. Is that what happens on other services?
Still, at the risk of sounding bitter, how many actual unsolicited emails did you write to men? (I mean, to men that didn’t write to you first.) I sent dozens upon dozens and received nothing in return.
I have to agree. Over the span of about three years and three different (popular) services, I sent out over six hundred messages. I included photos in my profile (the best I had), and had my profile vetted by several people, [post=5960595]including folk here[/post], as well as soliciting advice on how to cast a message to a particular [thread=308497]interest[/thread]. From all of that, I got an even dozen responses, resulting half-a-dozen committments to meet for coffee or a beer, which turned into four stand-ups and two disappointing meet-cutes.
Online dating is the big suck. It ain’t so thrilling [thread=312981]in the real world[/thread], either, but at least I don’t have an exaggerated expectation of success.
Stranger
No, but you’ll still have the pervs who want to talk about sex right away.
Not that this doesn’t happen on the other side–my male friend had to quit match.com because both his IRL hookups didn’t care about anything but sex. Not that he minded, but he wanted love, y’know.
I wrote 2 unsolicited emails on match.com. One responded, but no hookups. I felt funny about writing unsolicited emails because I was traditionally raised that good girls wink, but don’t make the first phone call. Made plenty of winks though. I quit match.com within a week. It was too confusing for me. My “best attribute”, physically, is really my hair–it reaches my waist, it shines, it’s thick with curls, but I felt that I was using a code word for “fatass”, for example.
And do I really want to go with guys who want only “slender” or “athletic” women? I’ve been one of those too-thin women, and got the chance to date those Fark.com-style jerks–they nitpicked over every little bite I ate, one of 'em gave me a good scolding for getting a 2nd slice of pizza (medium Pizza Hut pie-size slices, not those dinner-plate sized Sbarros pizzas). And just about every man my age checked “slender”/“athletic” and excluded other body types.
Oddly enough, most of the men I might consider, I didn’t consider because they had pictures of themselves posed with a young, pretty woman. Not in a friend setting, but in a romantic date/prom posed setting. I can understand the whole “no fat chicks” thing, but that picture’s sending out much too strong of a message.
Feh. Now I’m ranting.
I found someone IRL who seemed to be everything I ever wanted–but he wanted an emotional intimacy that truly scared me as a person who values stoicism. I decided I couldn’t handle it. As of two days ago we’re “taking time off”.
Am I being too picky? I want love–then when prince charming comes bearing so much love, I run away. Feh. This seems to be a common pattern with me… when I like someone too much, I seem to unconciously want to back off. Is that what guys experience with commitment issues?
I’ll stop hijacking. Ignore me. I’ll leave this thread in peace, and go run my 12 miles.
I think the dick pics are a Craigslist phenomenon. I don’t knwo why men send them, but it seems to be common there, from what women tell me. Female friends tell me that the shirtless outdoorsy pose is the match.com equivalent.
That’s miles better than my percentage of respondents, which probably doesn’t even clear 5%. If you insist I impersonate a woman and see how much crap I’d have to put up with, then I dare you to impersonate a man and see how damned hard it is to get 50% response (even a “sorry, no thanks”) out of 100 unsolicited emails sent. I could probably get that kind of response, but only if I lied about my weight, age, and income.
I marked down as accepting of a great many body types. That did not appreciably alter the number of slender and/or athletic women writing to me to praise my open-mindedness.
I include “slender,” “athletic,” and “average,” but receive the occasional flame condemning my superficiality because I don’t include “curvy” or “a few extra pounds” in my preferences, and that Marilyn Monroe was a size 24 or something.
I think some men might exclude “average” not because they don’t want to date a woman with a truly average weight-proportional-to-height build, but because weight deflation is a problem in many WSM profiles. Women deal with men who lie about their height; men deal with weight deflation. A LOT of men, myself included, have had experiences where they expect to meet a woman with an average build, and it turns out she’s actually quite large. Either she’s outright lying, or she heard that the average women in the US is overweight, so thus she can justify claiming an “average” build. Some men might overreact and strike “average” from their preferences. I include “average” in my preferences, but I’ve gotten damn good at identifying “Internet disease” and “FGAS”. It’s probably a lot harder for women to determine if a guy is really the height he claims from looking at his photo.
As for the guys exhibiting Fark.com “internet male” behavior - no, I don’t get it. I’m sure some do, and it seems rather asshat-ish of them. Still, when I reflect on my own behavior on a date – NOT a jerk, NOT a sheepish nice guy, not just blathering on about “me me me” but fostering a fun two-way conversation, not negative, dressed nice, looking fairly attractive IMHO – “so sorry no chemistry” is the normal result. Only thing I can think of is that I might not have any pheromones.
Women do the same thing; they post photos where thye’re surrounded by hunks, and it tells me “you’ve got to be at least this hot looking to expect a reply from me.” The omg-my-bestest-friends group hug shots are far more common, though; maybe every other profile has them.
Replying to myself; the “no chemistry” thing seems to happen with a far greater percentage of match.com dates than with real world dates. Seems like 90% of my dates on match.com with women I feel I’m compatible with are followed by the “you’re smart, cute and a great guy, but there’s no chemistry” email; with women I meet in the real world, it’s a much lower percentage. Can anyone share my experiences here?
I tried internet dating when I was twenty-one. In retrospect it didn’t help that I chose not to include a photo, but otherwise I think I gave it a good try. My experience was that the women my age would not reply to me, except for the one time that it turned out to be a troll for a porn site. Later on I tried sending e-mails to women a couple of years older than me. They would be kind enough to reply, but still rejected me based on my age. I haven’t bothered since then.
Yeah, that seems about right. Haven’t been on many dates that started in the online dating arena (I’m honing my skills on a couple smaller sites before jumping feet-first into the bigger ones), but that’s been my experience. It only makes sense, though, as the people you meet IRL aren’t making the online-to-IRL transition the match.com girls are (which, understandably, isn’t always the easiest transition to make; don’t we all idealize the people we meet online just a teeny little bit?).
rubymermaid I just might take you up on your letter-critiquing offer (if nobody beats me to it). My rate of replies isn’t bad for what I expect from the online-dating thing (a reply for every 3 or 4 e-mails sent), but I suppose I could always do better.
(And, of course, it doesn’t help that while I’m not a bad-looking guy, I’m apparently not very photogenic. :o )
Great synopsis of online dating, elmwood. I couldn’t have said it better myself. I’ve tried most of the big sites in the last nine months and from sending out close to a hundred individually written spellchecked and (if I say so) funny emails, I had two responses. Sharon seemed ok till the second date which ended badly. Maura I really regret, she seemed pretty much perfect for me but she gave me the “no chemistry” line after the third date. Funny, real, smart, gorgeous…damn.
So two women, 5 dates, around $300 spent in total and I’ve ended up with one kiss in the last 9 months. Coincidentally my friend Toni asked me about online dating and I told her that I couldn’t really advise as men and women have such different experiences online. I like to go look and see who’s out there but I’ve given up on using it to actually find someone.
elmwood good response. That does make better sense. Thank you. And I don’t think you’re (or anyone else) being asshatish in excluding a few body types; at least not any more than women are asshatish in excluding anyone who’s shorter than themselves. It’s rather hard to distinguish the guys who are hedging against size deflation from “sharp knees” guys, though (the couple I dated were nice enough & didn’t show their true colors till they watched me eat).
I’ll concede that guys have a much harder time here, and I’m sorry Internet dating is so difficult for you.
How do you envision finding love without emotional intimacy? Or do you not see how it could work for you?
Anyhow, on the topic of internet dating, let me echo the common theme that the response rate from women to my unsolicited (and, trust me, charming and witty in my own sincere but geeky way) emails was frustratingly low. Five to ten percent at best.
(If anyone is curious, or wants to comment, I’m TinWoodman at match.com).
(The secret to match.com, by the way, is to have joined way back when it was free and be grandfathered in forever.)
I read it differently. I don’t think she wants a relationship devoid of emotional intimacy, just that his is too intense. (Perhaps too much too soon, perhaps just too overwhelmingly much.)
As a woman who has done a lot of internet dating, I do agree that it seems like it’s harder to develop chemistry with someone from online. I suspect that part of it is that the Internet gives you SO MANY choices, you can develop a feeling of being able to pretty much “custom order” the guy you want, so it’s easier to nitpick the little flaws in your date.
Even though this is about men’s experiences, I am glad to see that I’m not the only woman on a personal site who doesn’t have dozens of gorgeous hunks trying to beat down my door. I do get emails from guys, but most of them are not of very high quality.
I seem to get a lot of emails from guys with poor English skills (sometimes it’s obviously because they are new immigrants, but other times it’s just lack of education), or the guy is just trying to get sex. It almost makes me wonder if there’s something wrong with my approach…but for now I’m too shy to post my profile here and ask for advice. :eek:
Usually, I feel shut out by most women’e personal ads. I don’t even try or bother because of their specificity. They are basically shutting me out with their preferences and demands. I have enough integrity to not bother with women who are convinced they don’t want a guy like me. I don’t hold myself up to particularly high esteem, but I feel I have something to offer and could make an excellent lover and boyfriend, but I have many strikes against me. I go for open and accepting. Very few open and accepting profiles at dating sights.
I guess, distilled, in essence, it seems like women’s online dating profiles are just piles of prejudice. Not very attractive nor inviting.
If someone offers to set you up on a blind date and your first question is “How does she/he look” IRL dating is the best choice.
If someone offers to set you up on a blind date and your first question is “How does she/he think” internet dating is a great choice.
That’s just my experience from doing the net dating thing years ago. I’m not very lookie. I’m attracted to all sorts of body and facial types, so the internet was perfect for me.
I sometimes wonder if I have defective pheromones. I have a close female friend whom I’d marry in a heartbeat. We spend a lot of time together and both pretty much agree that we’re great for each other–except that she feels no chemistry. Her attitude toward me is basically, “You’re wonderful! I wouldn’t date you if you were the last man on earth! Hey, wanna play tennis and go see a movie tomorrow?” I just have to accept the fact that she’s going to be my unrelated sister/best friend for the rest of my life, and leave it at that.
I tried match.com a few years ago. The main problem was that I live in the boonies. Most women had “within 25 miles” or “within 50 miles” and I lived well beyond that range. It’s probably much more useful if you live in a city.
I’ve been with my girlfriend (now fiancee) for several years now, so I don’t have much experience of internet dating sites.
Having said that, I do have a good friend who has the worst luck with women. After a spectacular disaster of a GF (who turned out to be bipolar and depressed), he thought he might try his hand at some of the Adult Personal sites that advertise on TV here or on the internet.
His spelling and grammar isn’t that great, so he asked for my help in “cleaning up” his profile so he didn’t look like either a illiterate hyperexcitable n00b, or else a total dickhead bragging about how cool he was.
So we sat down and I drafted a profile outlining his interests, and what sort of woman he was looking for (“And ‘One with a pulse’ is not a viable answer”, I explained), that sort of thing. All very respectable, witty (so I thought), and intelligent.
Now, the problem here is that most of the dating sites want you to pay to use them. He wasn’t prepared to pay. “If I’m going to pay, I may as well get a hooker”, was how he put it.
So he’d put his profile up, send “winks” to women he thought were suitable (“Look, she lists her interests as rock-climbing, hiking, and Marathon Running… probably not your type, in other words”), chat to people in the chat rooms, and get: nothing.
Another friend of mine had more luck by paying for it, but the women he met were… shall we say, slightly defective? That’s not to imply women on internet dating sites are in anyway lacking compared to the rest of the population, but he certainly seemed to end up meeting the ones which either had emotional problems from abusive exes, drug problems, were neurotic, or generally a can short of a six pack. Didn’t stop him getting laid from it, though.
He’s currently in a relationship with a woman he met online, but she has her own problems (seriously neurotic, for a start), while, ironically, the friend trying to get laid without paying is now with a girl he met through a work colleage.
Anyway, the biggest trends I noticed whilst helping him with his quest to meet someone online were:
Enormous numbers of women looking for “Just Friends”. Look, I’m sorry, but if you’re looking for “Just Friends”, a site advertising itself (or heavily insinuating) as being primarily for people to hook up for sex probably isn’t the best place to be looking, OK?
Younger women with massive checklists that no-one could possibly meet (“Must be tall, handsome, interested in pre-Raphaelite art, and own an Echidna”), incredibly shallow (only interested in “Hot” guys with flash cars), or incredibly naieve (“Looking for a good time with fun guys!” and being offended when someone asks what they had in mind).
Older women who wouldn’t talk to anyone younger than them (sure, an 18 year old might be off-putting, but I think a 23 year old can conduct himself with a modicum of decorum. I know my friend can, provided you keep him away from the rum.)
Ugly, Picky Women. I know it’s harsh, but some of the women who, it appeared, would only respond to messages from Fabio or Orlando Bloom (and even then only if his profile photo showed him sitting on the bonnet of his Maserati whilst flashing some serious bling) were, shall we say, unlikely to be gracing the pages of even the most content-starved Men’s Periodical. My friend would send “winks” to these women anyway, and get “sorry, not interested” replies back.
Cliquey groups of women who live in the online chat rooms and ignore every guy who even says “Hello” to them, exacerbated by the fact their profiles often had lingerie or otherwise appealing photos in them.
Profile Photos of the “OMG Best Friends!” variety, either with a group of girls (Who will invariably be catty bitches, for whom no guy is ever good enough for their friend), with another guy/ex bf (isn’t it obvious this is a bad idea?), or their parents (How old are you again?)
Time Wasters. My friend actually got an E-mail from an interested woman, and they E-mailed back and forth a few times, and eventually decided to meet somewhere public for a coffee, so either party could walk away if they were uncomfortable.
He showed up at the meeting place. She didn’t. And she never responded to another E-mail message, and for all intents and purposes vanished. My friend had used a real photo of himself (clothed), and whilst he’s unlikely to be named Cleo’s Bachelor Of The Year anytime soon, he’s certainly not ugly or anything like that.
It was being stood up that finally convinced him to give up on the whole online dating thing, and just wait for someone to come along.
I’m sure there’s something in there about online dating reflecting offline dating, but I’m just putting out my observations as a tangentially involved third party… your results can and probably do vary, so to speak…
Not much experience here, but I was on OkCupid for a couple of months after seeing it recommended on this board and I found it to be worthless. My problem was actually that I could find very few profiles that interested me. I don’t know why that is, although devilsknew’s depiction of “piles of prejudice” rings quite true and probably accounts for some of it. The few messages/woos I sent received no response. I did receive a few spontaneous messages from other people, but they were so different from me that I was rather amazed they bothered. The most that it amounted to was a brief acquaintance with a girl who just wanted to be friends, which was fine with me, but she started ignoring me after we met a couple of times.
Admittedly, my experience is limited, but I nevertheless offer another vote against.