Did you really just use the term ‘group think’?
So the eight independant engineers & scientists, and the European partner: are they part of the group think (how does that work exactly)? Or are Steorn lying about the existence of the eight independant engineers & scientists, and the European partner, in which case is it not fraud?
If it is not a hoax by Dewe Rogersen, which I think is very possible, then it is highly unlikely that they would be involved in a straight fraud.
They are a highly respected PR/Advertising setup, under Thatcher they handled the Privatization of a number of Nationalized industries.
They are very respectable company.
http://www.citigatedr.co.uk/history.html
No way would they be involved in a financial scam.
Is that a problem?
I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. A group that has worked itself up into a state of belief can easily take negative results and turn them into confirmation. I know this because I’ve personally seen it happen. It’s perfectly reasonable to accept that they’ve asked people to look at it, got negative responses and forced them to fit their beliefs, and left the observers in the position of having to distance themselves from the company.
Yeah, it’s fucking stupid to think that you’ve invented perpetual motion by rearranging some magnets. That doesn’t imply fraud is the best explanation for stupidity. Stupidity happens. Sheesh.
You better send them a bunch of money then. Let us know how it works out for you.
You’re missing the point that NOBODY IS ASKING FOR ANY MONEY.
Which is what makes it a pretty silly scam, if it is a scam. If they were asking for investors, then sure, scam alert, but they specifically say that they will not accept any money from would-be investors
OK, so you could say they are going to “prove” that it works with a fake jury, then fleece the investors, but it seems a very roundabout way of doing it.
As being one of the few people on the SDMB, perhaps the only one, who has been hired professionally to inspect perpetual motion and “mysterious energy” devices, I have this non-judgmental thing to say.
The people I would want to inspect it are magicians, not people with “multiple PhDs”( :rolleyes: ) - Penn and Teller, Copperfield, Blaine, pick your favourite illusionist. Because in every case I was involved with where my company was actually allowed to inspect the device, some slight of hand was involved, not calculational trickery.
Disclaimer: I’m not judging this device or its claims in specific.
Uh huh. And if some venture capitalist rings them up and says, “Hey, I know you say you aren’t soliciting investment, but I’d really like to get in on this, any way we can, y’know, make an arrangement,” what do you suppose they’ll say?
The eight independent engineers and scientists are not known to exist. They are all “off the record.”
-FrL-
I think this makes an excellent and important point.
If you want to know whether or not a perpetual motion device is feasible, or if a “mysterious energy” device is possible or not given a set of physical claims for its operation, then a physicist might be a good person to ask. Heck, as demonstrated in this thread, anyone with a basic understanding of the laws of thermodynamics should know that there is “no free lunch” and “you can’t break even” (lay statements of the first two laws of thermodynamics). Skepticism is the logical default position when faced with any fantastic claim.
Now, if one wanted to know the how of a specific device, then certainly professional tricksters are the right ones to call in.
Likewise, the how of the scam is open to debate, but the truthfullness of their claims must be viewed as a reeeaaaaly long shot.
Yet.
There are two possibilities.
One: they will never ask for any money, at which point they will fold up and you will never hear from them again, and everything they (and presumably others)have sunk into the scheme thus far will be lost.
Two: they will ask for money to continue their research.
Which is more likely?
It’s called a ‘long con.’
I’m inclined to think so as well (but damn, if it were true!). However… haven’t these guys received so much publicity that they couldn’t easily disappear with any money they get (assuming it’s a scam)?
One of the necessities of the long con is that you can disappear with the money at the end of the con. These guys seem to be leaving a pretty big, obvious paper trail.
Didn’t I already suggest The Amazing Randi’s group he’s already assembled at CSICOP?
Also load the source and read the HTML comments (in <! foo > tags).
I am referring to Citigate Dewe Rogerson
You don’t seem to understand, I belatedly recognized their PR/CR agency from my distant past - they are highly respected and respectable.
There is a very good chance that Dewe Rogerson have set the thing up as a ‘demonstration’ of how they can run a publicity campaign
- but there is no way that Dewe Rogerson would be knowingly involved in a scam
It is like Cordiant, or WPP or Saatchi’s getting involved in promoting a Nigerian 419 con.
It is probably an advertising industry hoax, but it is not a financial scam.
Quite. I think you miss my point.
Here you go.
a) convincing (see c!)
b) resist all attempts at reverse engineering (don’t have to reveal mechanism)
c) earn $1,000,000 
Meet James Randi.
‘Just perform step number one, showing that the device or system puts out more energy than it takes in, and the whole world will sit up in rapt admiration, and will invest! Hey, I’ll invest! And of course the JREF will immediately award its million-dollar prize. Steorn will scoff at that, since I’m not a scientist, but I sure know a machine that runs itself will get the prize! And we’ve got the million dollars!’
http://www.randi.org/jr/2006-08/082506yet.html#i1
I would bet you that Steorn turn this million dollars down, but I don’t like to take money under such circumstances. :eek:
Well Barings was a respectable bank. But they went bankrupt all the same:
The ego of a 28-year-old trader on the Singapore Monetary Exchange and the greed and stupidity of a 233 year-old bank had combined to destroy an investment empire, and in the process stunned the world.
If this idea worked they would not have to advertise for investors! They would have to beat them off with a stick. Why hasn’t some smart venture capitalist invested in this? Simple a smart venture capitalist knows a scam when he/she sees one.