In the late 80’s I was dating a professor. She told me she’d like having me around but had papers to grade and grant proposals to review, so I should plan on entertaining myself.
Fair enough so far. I brought a book and a sketch pad. But after I was there for about a half hour her friend calls and she has a 2-1/2 hour conversation about basically nothing in particular.
Dafuq?
Relationship lasted less than a month after that. I don’t expect to be someone’s number one priority all the time, but it soon became clear that I was getting whatever time, attention, and respect that was left after numbers one through five were taken care of.
I started a thread a couple of weeks ago about a guy who had his cellphone out and was playing games and texting throughout a whole day of playing board games. I didn’t care for that, either - while you’re waiting for your turn, you socialize and be present for the other people you’re sharing face time with. That being present is something that is becoming very de-valued, and I think that is a serious loss in our society. I see it all the time - people out with their kids, and the parents spend the whole time on their cellphones. We give our attention to what we value - when you’re with someone and they don’t give you their attention, you logically assume that you aren’t as important to them as what they do give their attention to.
I’m sure people judge my husband and I when we go out to eat, because there are times when we both want to be fed and be in each others company, but we don’t necessarily need or want to talk. We each have some sort of reading material and we eat, read, and occasionally chat. Mostly this is at breakfast or lunch out, but occasionally even dinner if it’s been a long crazy day.
That’s a little different though than making a date to get together with someone to do something with them like a game, or meeting for a meal when you haven’t seen someone in a while and and the object is as much to socialize as it is to eat.
And they’re making their turns longer, so making you wait longer than if they’d been planning their own actions. As we once told a guy who kept leaving the table when he got phone calls “dude, if we wanted to play by mail we wouldn’t have all come here!”
The second one is a great opportunity to clean up other people’s empties and ask whether anybody wants something, too… hey! Interaction! My college RPG group never minded when whomever was hosting grabbed the jar and went to make more Nesquik, that was an extremely acceptable distraction because it was to the benefit of the group.
When I first read the thread, I was prepared to defend the behavior. I was thinking of it through the lens of introversion. When I’m around another introverted person, the two of us can “hang out” with each other while being engrossed in our own independent activities. Like reading or working on crafts. We don’t have talk to each other to be with each other.
However, after further thought, I realized that I am not tolerant of “let’s do our own thing!” all the time. Like, if the two of us have agreed to watch a DVD, I don’t want to be the only one watching it. If something exciting happens, I don’t want to experience it alone. And I don’t want to hear, “What happened! Let’s go back and rewind because I have been texting/surfing the web for the last ten minutes!” I could watch the movie alone and not have to deal with that shit. But if I’m with you, it’s for a reason. I’d like for you to want to be with me for a reason as well.
HOWEVER :), I don’t know if I’m consistent. Like, if we are watching a DVD and you decide to start painting your nails, I probably wouldn’t care. There are some activities that seem ruder than others for some reason.
(I don’t play board games, so that’s why I had to relate it to something else.)
Playing successfully requires that players treat the game as if it mattered, even though it doesn’t. If one of the players acts like the game is a waste of time not worth their attention, it spoils the experience for everyone else. Taking the game seriously is actually an essential element of play.
When your friend pulls out his laptop or phone, I’d be blunt about it. “Hey, are you playing this game or not? Maybe we should schedule this for another time when you’re not so busy.”
I dealt with this by running a tabletop game in a setting that includes technology, and explicitly telling my players they were welcome to bring their laptops and smartphones with them as long as they paid attention when it mattered. Anyone who can’t answer the question, “What is your character doing?” reasonably promptly is declared to have “lost a turn to Wikipedia (or YouTube or TVTropes or whatever)” and is skipped. As this leaves you vulnerable to the whims of the DM – and the DM in this case is creative and can have a dark sense of humor – I’ve never had anyone do it more than once. They learn.
I also tend to have a gaming group so wired-up that asking them to turn off the internet devices would not fix the attention problem, because it would drive them crazy. They’re geeks of all stripes. One of them has the distinction of being the only player ever to earn XP from me for not attending a session. He was playing an engineer with an obsessive compulsion to fix things, mainly because he actually is an engineer with an obsessive compulsion to fix things, and on his way into town, he passed a farmer stopped by the side of the road with a broken tractor…
Eight hours later, when he got home and recharged his iPhone so he could text us what had happened, I laughed until my sides hurt, and gave him his character points for role-playing so well he failed to show up to the game.
I kind of get what you mean. I’ve often done the same, but nowadays I normally either want some kind of proper engagement with someone or to be properly alone to do my own thing, especially when it comes to the friend. For various reasons, his presence is slightly hard work. That’s fine if he’s bringing something (i.e. himself) but otherwise I just end up slightly resentful and throw it on the “his problems he has made into mine” pile.
ETA: I’m not quite as resentful as I probably sound. I just need to let my inner grumpy old man out sometimes.
A bit of a derail; but this is exactly why I am useless at chess. I’m just no good at the figuring-out “if A, then probably B, or perhaps C; or if D, then maybe E or F”, etc. etc. My brain just does not seem to be wired to do that kind of stuff effectively. It takes me forever to try to envisage these scenarios, and I usually end up figuring things out wrongly, anyway. Every move of mine takes a long, long time: I’d be hard put to it to blame the other player for pulling out their phone and starting to do stuff on it ! I wish I could enjoy chess – I can see in principle what a terrific game it is – but in fact, it shapes itself as a torment for me and my opponent.
Re the OP and the discussion therefrom; I definitely consider it, in normal circumstances, very not-cool for players to have their attention elsewhere, in between their turns.
I had a very close friend who started to behave in a similar fashion. My approach was, whenever she put her phone down I’d politely and brightly ask, ‘So, who were you texting/was that?’
“Oh, I was just/it was Bob.”
Me: “So what’s he up to/what’s that about?”
Just keep asking as many questions, about their shit, as you possibly can. Chances are they don’t really want to share every detail. If they chafe, “Sorry, but while you ARE here with me, I was still feeling a tad excluded. Just trying to feel included is all!”
Unfortunately the real truth is, it’s a new world. This IS the new norm, like it or not. Your rapidly becoming archaic, ideas concerning the nature of politeness or privacy no longer apply. For good or for bad.
I think if we want to move smoothly into the future, we need to accept that. Or, y’know, rage away against change that no one can possibly turn back now.
I look at it this way, every step the New World takes away from privacy or politeness, personal interaction, etc, makes me look better mannered, more caring and engaged. I find I can live with that.
Yeah, you’re right. I don’t see the world going back to a kinder, gentler, more connected in real life time. I don’t like it, and I probably never will, and I do think we are losing something very valuable in the process, but it’s only going to go one way in the future.
To an older generation, surfing your device, over engaging with the person physically present, is, in fact, a new way of being rude.
Lacking a sufficient sense of privacy as to subject everyone in the Hasty Mart to the intimate details of your bad breakup is also a new way to be rude.
No one said technology ‘required’ it, or implied such.
An even older generation was the first to appreciate it was rude to watch t.v.* and answer the phone when one had guests. The idea is, if you make plans to socialize with someone, you socialize with them. This is not new.
Neither is the Hasty Mart thing.
Well, unless you invited them over to watch Milton Berle.
I am guilty of doing this at times. I’m sorry if it offends people, it’s really not meant to.
For example, if we’re waiting for our food at a restaurant, I might get out my 3DS. I have a hard time hearing in restaurants, and someone else generally has their phone out as well.
If during the evening conversation veers off into something I just don’t care about - there’s only so many times I want to hear about the problem player/s in your D & D campaign, or movies you’ve seen without me, or the newest hard-science news that my social-sciency brain can’t process - I may get out the 3DS again. It is you, but it isn’t you. Does that make sense?
I have anxiety and impatience issues, so if playing with an electronic device keeps me from either freaking out or verbally ripping someone’s head off, I’m going to play with my toy.
I have known my friends for 20+ years now and have not managed to piss them off with this yet.
It’s not new, used to play RPG’s with a guy who would read game books for a different game, or even a novel until it was his turn. Always had to be caught up too. I think the technology just makes it easier and a bit more socially acceptable. moi and I both will check texts or twitter occasionally in social settings, but not during something as engaging as a board game. One of my best friends, who I only get to see about once a year, could be the OP’s brother. He suffers from ADHD and has always been easily distracted, but the phone makes it ten times worse. If we played games more often, I’d have to say something.
