I never said I only treat women with respect. I treat everyone with respect. I was only talking about women in this instance.
Exactly.
I’ll hold a door for anyone that’s within a certain radius of me when I get to the door, whether they’re male or female, and I teach my daughters to do the same. I say ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ to whomever I’m speaking with because it’s polite, whether they’re male or female, and I teach my daughters to do the same. I don’t rise whenever a woman enters or exits the room because it’s antiquated, and it’s a gender-based affectation that’s in danger of being misinterpreted in a mixed-gender workplace. I think it fell out of vogue around the time we stopped referring to the women in our lives as “the little lady” and thinking of them as “the fairer sex”.
But that’s where the custom comes from and that’s more or less the mindset that it reflects. What additional respect do women get - or need - from having doors opened for them?
Why don’t men deserve the same signs of respect?
Is there any respect if I let the door close behind me as a lady, or anyone approaches?
It just seems the right thing to do. Hold the door for someone who is close to coming in through that door.
I also offer my seat to a woman if there are no seats available. Is that disrespectful?
You didn’t answer his question and tried to redirect. Would you mind answer his question? What additional respect do women get or need from having doors opened for them?
Also, you specifically say “I always get the door for a woman and always stand when a woman approaches.” You specify that you do this for a woman. Do you always get the door for a man and stand when a man approaches?
If the woman is more capable of standing for a long time (because she is younger, fitter, etc) then I would imagine it being disrespectful. Why should an able-bodied woman get a seat over an able-bodied man? Is there any reason other than the unstated assumption that women need to be taken care of more than men?
What if I don’t respect them?
That’s all fine and dandy, but you have to understand that it only “seems the right thing to do” because someone told you that it was. They didn’t have any evidence or rationale behind it, and thus, you don’t either. To the rest of us, it doesn’t “seem right thing to do,” it seems like the offensive and discourteous thing to do.
Women? Maybe. Thankfully, ladies know better.
Because if a man holds the door open for another man then the door opener is clearly gay and therefore not really a man and is essentially a woman. So it then behooves the man having the door opened for him to do the manly thing and thus swap places and hold the door open for the now gay-woman initial door opener.
But now wait. Now the non-man man is having a door opened for him by another man and since the non-man man is still techinically a man this makes the new door opener gay and thus not a man. So now they have to switch places again and the cycle repeats infinitely with the two men non-men men constantly swapping places and thus blocking the door to the business so now no one can enter or leave the business which is bad for business and thus bad for America.
Why do you hate America?
I only hold the door open for dogs with seeing eye people.
Men deserve nothing more than to be run through with your rapier or shot with your blunderbuss.
(That’s a joke, for the humour impaired.)
I agree. So do it for anybody who happens to be nearby.
In general that’s a nice thing to do and few people would have a problem with it. But like MichaelEmouse said, you didn’t answer my question. Why do women need this kind of nice treatment or respect more than men do?
Forget these naysayers. I’d love it if you’d stand when I stand; it would definitely make me feel special.
Of course, I’m a man, but I assume it’d be a sign of respect for you to stand when men stand, too, right? I mean, don’t you respect men?
I know you’ve got to be terribly frustrated when you stand up and a woman remains seated; it’s such a sign of disrespect for her to do so.
That said, when you’re a business client, and you do something unusual that weirds out a business employee to the extent that you have to stop and explain your behavior to the employee, and the employee expresses approval of your behavior, you can’t believe that. You’re in a position of power over the employee at that point, since you’re potentially making money for their employer, and if they make you angry, you can complain to management and hurt their job. The employee knows this.
So if you made that banker feel special, she might say, “Oh, that makes me feel so special!” And if you made that banker feel totally irritated, she might say, “Oh, that makes me feel so special!”
I agree with the idea that chivalry isn’t dead, but has been updated. I will hold the door open for women, but I’ll also hold it open for men. In fact, I think the most respectful thing I can do for a woman is treat her no different than I would a man in some cases that means I actually think it’s more respectful to do a little less, like the whole standing thing the OP mentions.
That said, if I’m on a date, obviously things are a little different, but she’s also not just a random stranger or someone I’m doing a business transaction with and of course I’d do a little bit more for someone I know personally.
The only thing that really bothers me about this was one event I remember several years ago where I was just casually holding the door open for a middle-aged woman as I would have for anyone. But as she got offended and proceeded to lecture me about how women are liberated and she didn’t need my charity and such nonsense. I really hate that kind of attitude when someone is just trying to be nice.
I don’t know the answer to that question. I guess it would depend on the woman. I don’t poll them to see if they feel respected or not.
I would imagine that it doesn’t cross their mind that I’m trying to be respectful. They are probably just thinking I’m trying to be polite. I’ll take it.
Well, heck, when your OP is about chivalry and treating women with respect, people tend to assume you’re only talking about women.
Frankly, I think good manners are fine, it’s just that some of the old ways of expressing them are kind of pointless, especially if they’re only applied to women. Standing up when a woman enters or leaves? Why? What does that do for her on a practical level? If it’s a sign of respect, which historically it is, then it signifies respect regardless of gender. So do it for both men and women.
As for holding doors, it’s a nice gesture. I’ve never felt slighted by someone holding a door for me. And I return the favor on a basically daily basis, for both men and women. But there are some instances where it’s not appropriate; take** Ferret Herder**'s example, where a visitor to the hospital holding a door for her contraindicates her job guideline of letting patients and visitors off the elevator first. If “good manners” involve getting in someone else’s way, then it’s not “good manners.”
And I’ve never had a chair held out for me that I didn’t have to scoot and adjust anyway after sitting down. It doesn’t help and I wish people wouldn’t do it, traditional good manners or no.
And DON’T get me started on guys who insist on relieving me of anything remotely heavy that I’m carrying. I’ve got it, dammit, I know my own strength; if it looks too heavy, 1)ASK ME if I want help, 2)if I say no, DON’T TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME ANYWAY. This actually happens. You want to help, take my purse for a moment; it’s also heavy, and it dangles and gets in the way. Funny how no guy ever offers to take that off my hands.
I’ve asked men how to do things (run machinery, use a power tool, etc.) and sometimes the response is “Oh, I’ll get that for you.” NO, thank you, if you’ve got the time to do it, I’d rather you show me how to do it myself; someday you won’t be around to do that when it needs doing, and I won’t know how because you insisted on doing it for me. That’s not respect, that’s patronizing.
Basically, take a look at any activity that you think of as “good manners” or “doing a favor” and ask yourself two things: if you would do it for another man, and if you would feel weird or awkward if another man did it for YOU. If the answers are “yes” and “no,” then do it for women with a clear conscience. If those aren’t the answers, ask yourself why those aren’t the answers.
It appears that Chivalry is dead. 
In my small town it seems to be appreciated. When I travel I will tone it down.
Thanks everyone for participating.
Why the frowny face? Just be nice to everybody and don’t condescend to women.
Sadly, yes. It has become cool to be a jerk. People no longer show courtesy and respect to one another as a de facto standard of behavior.
Thanks for posting this.
Courtesy and respect are two of the fundamental life skills that we teach in our Taekwondo school. And it is saddening to be talking about basic courtesy, such as opening doors, etc., and have a nine year old kid ask why he should open doors for women because they don’t do anything for him.
We do what we can, Maeganspop. We lead by example and we keep doing what’s right. That’s all we can do.
Tone what down? Are you going to stop opening doors for people or something?
ETA: Look. Women don’t especially want or need special treatment. You talk about respecting women; how about respecting what they actually appreciate, and not what you think they should appreciate?