Is Chivalry Dead?

It’s so you can get a better look at their cleavage. Duh!

Thank you for being nice. Please don’t stop.

A lot of your confusion seems to stem from the setting. In social settings, yes, stand when a woman stands, but at a bank, the woman is not a woman. She is a manager (or whatever) and is doing her job. If you would not stand for a male manager, don’t stand for a female one. In business situations, just consider everyone equals. Save your social niceties for social situations where they would be more appropriate and appreciated.

Just my two cents.

Gods willing.

I got chidded once by my SO for not walking between her and the curb. First I told her my tiny body wasn’t going to slow down two tons of steel. Secondly, I told her that that would only make it harder for me to jump clear as she would obviously be in my way :slight_smile:

Relevant:

http://vault.hanover.edu/~altermattw/research/overview.htm

Come to think of it I use a version of the “street side” thing myself: whenever I’m in a crosswalk and particularly when I’m jaywalking, I make sure someone else (not my date) is closer to oncoming traffic than I am. That seems like defensive walking to me.

According to DH, the scraping of the chairs covers up the sounds of farting and serves as the alert for all the other guys to stop farting.

:smiley:

Ok, i’m laughing at the responses now. :stuck_out_tongue:

I do in fact hold doors open for men if they are right behind me. I don’t hold it open for most women; I’ve never had a man fly into a rage at a demonstration of kindness the way some women do. I only do things like hold the door open for older women (who grew up before getting offended at such things became popular), and for women who are pregnant or shepherding kids; they are too harried to work up faux outrage in my experience. Women my age or younger are too prone to respond to any act of kindness with hostility for me to feel obligated to offer unasked help of any kind.

I’ve never seen anyone take offense at having a door held open for them. I think you’re overreacting to the chivalry concept.

Well, I have.

This I think is another one that’s out of date. If I’m walking down the street, I’m less likely to be threatened by a car jumping the curb than harassed by panhandlers lounging in the doorways; ergo, shouldn’t the man walk on the woman’s side away from the street?

I also think it’s weird that people are offended that you’re holding the door for them. Several years ago, it was less common, but nowadays, I see people holding the door for both men and women all the time, and it’s strange to me that a younger woman nowadays would think that you are only holding it for her and not for men as well.

As has been said before, I think there’s a difference between the way you act with a date or a SO, the way you act in a social situation in general, and the way you act in a business setting.

I hold the door open for everybody. I’ll offer my seat on a crowded subway to someone who looks like they need it more than I do, which is often an older or pregnant woman but might be an older man.

I stand up (or at least do the half-rise) when I’m in a restaurant and new people arrive, because it feels weird to me to be greeting people while you’re sitting down.

Speaking of restaurants, does it seem that they’ve decreased treating men and women differently? Ten or fifteen years ago, I noticed more restaurants taking all of the women’s orders first than happens now. If the same food is ordered by both a man and a woman, though, I think most restaurants will still serve the entree to the woman first.

Thanks, that was very interesting. One part indicated that the men were less chivalrous toward women that were perceived to be less virtuous. I don’t find myself being that way at all. As I said in my OP, even if a woman is a murderer you should still hold open the door of her jail cell.

Of course, unless you’re a prison guard, you’re never going to get to do that- and if you are a prison guard, holding open the door isn’t chivalrous, it’s your job. :wink: But ignoring all that… why? For what reason would you hold open the cell door of a female murderer and tell a male murderer he can open his own darned cell door?

Unless I’m struggling with a large package or something I think it’s condescending.

And you stop and tell people not to hold the door for you?

This is a great article, and well worth reading.

Another good one on the same topic of traditional chivalry as “benevolent sexism” can be found on the Chivalry Today website: The BS Debate. Lots of good discussion there.

The thing I find most tiresome about the “respecting women” claim of traditional chivalry is that said respect is essentially worthless if it is based on an accident of birth or something I have no control over, rather than something I have earned. It treats the recipient as an object instead of a human being with agency and the ability to make her (or his) own decisions about how to behave. On a related note, there was a recent study in which it was found that kids who were praised for “being smart” were less likely to work hard than those who were praised for “trying their best”: to do one encourages right action, to do the other negates the belief in its importance.

Common courtesy and compassion, on the other hand, we can never get enough of-- and so when anyone opens the door for me, I smile and thank them (and then, if it’s a double door, open the second one for them).

I’m a man who works in a mainly-female workplace, and every day I have the door held open for me more than I hold the door open for others, just as a side-effect of certain aspects of the job. I appreciate it when folks do it for me, and I do it for others as the opportunity arises.

If someone does it only for women, then sure, it may be condescending. But please be aware that there are plenty of us equal-opportunity-door-holders out there, and that if a man holds the door open for a woman, often the sexes are irrelevant.

I don’t mind when someone opens a door for me, so long as it makes sense for them to do so.

I do mind when it means I have to change what I’m doing to go along with the role they are trying to assign me. And I do mind if they are opening the door in such a way that I then have to brush them to get by.

If someone wants to stand when I enter a room, why, they can stand all they want. I probably won’t notice. Knock yourself out.

Offer me a seat on the subway and I probably won’t take it. There’s usually someone who needs it more than I do, and I don’t mind standing. Try to insist I take the seat, or your hand, or that I change my behavior in some way to suit your desire to be polite and I’ll think you’re a jerk.