Is it Disrespectful to Leave Dead Bodies for More than 18 Hours Lying in the Street?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Bodies stayed on the streets, covered, for more than 18 hours on Sunday before they were transferred to the coroner’s office around 8:30 p.m.

The police chief said in Sunday afternoon’s news conference that the bodies remained at the scene for so long in order to maintain the integrity of a complex crime scene in which the shooters are still at large.

For more information about this see the thread:

I think it’s nonsense that you need to leave the bodies on the street to preserve the integrity of the crime scene (you can take photos and leave markers of the position of the body) and I think it is disrespectful.

2

I think since I have no idea whatsoever what is involved in getting all needed details from a crime scene, and I’m not nearly arrogant enough to think I have a valid opinion regardless of my ignorance, I’m going to defer the decision to those who do have that knowledge. And I think it would be far, far more disrespectful to reduce the chances of catching the shooters by moving the bodies prematurely due to some vague notion of “respect” to the dead.

3

All I can say is, if it were dead police bodies in the street, they’d have been picked up and taken away, probably with a honor guard, within an hour.

4

Anyone else think this thread was about Ukraine when they clicked on it?

5

Yes, but then I considered that in Ukraine it might not be 18 hours but rather 18 days bodies might lie in the streets.

6

That’s basically what happened when that Dutch airplane was shot down over Ukraine a few years ago. :frowning:

7

You think the police would be less interested in catching the perps if the victims were fellow cops?

8

I have noticed over the last several years, it seems like more and more people are showing almost pagan-like levels of reverence (not respect, but reverence) for dead human bodies. Now sure, you don’t want to sling human bodies around in the same manner that you would (potentially) sling animal bodies around, but why would you think that something like this is disrespectful?

Practically every major religion says that the body is no more than a shell or container for the actual person–the soul, or spirit, or however it’s described. Even the New Agers say things like, “We’re not physical beings having a spiritual experience, we’re spiritual beings having a physical experience.” Leaving a body lying around for a while is not being disrespectful, because the person is not the same thing as that body. That person has already gone on to the next thing, whatever that thing may be. The empty body is equivalent to a suit of clothing that is no longer needed.

9

How much personal experience do you have with actual mass killings and murder investigations?

10

And yet, both Islam and Judaism have rather strict rules regarding the proper handling of bodies, and I understand that both of those religions emphasize expeditiousness. The body of my family member, friend or lover is that through which I engaged with that person’s spirit, so, while the dead person is not measurably impacted by what is done with their empty shell, it does affect those who knew them. Funerals, after all, are for the living.

11

Dead bodies, left unrefrigerated, begin to rot very quickly. Left laying out in the street, this can become a public health / sanitary problem. Especially left out in the sun. (I think that Sacramento event was at night – may explain why it took a long time, in the dark, to get a good read on the crime scene.)

Fully investigating the crime scene could take a while, and might required leaving the bodies where they are. Public sanitization would require the bodies be moved to a morgue as quickly as possible. I guess we just need to leave it to the professionals to decide how to resolve these competing requirements.

12

Law enforcement sure devotes a lot more resources to investigating a homicide when the homicidee is a cop.

Someone shot someone in the ghetto? Meh, we’ll get a cop out there to take a report sometime this week.

Someone shot a cop, anywhere? They’ll be swarming over the scene like ants. Closing off the streets, even freeways. Going door-to-door seeking witnesses, even at 4 in the morning. (Ask me how I know that.)

But I don’t know that it takes 18 hours to clear the crime scene. If it happened at about 2:00 a.m. (I think), that would be until 8:00 p.m.

Story-time: Someone (who turned out to be a Hispanic immigrant, illegal I think) shot a cop in my quiet little farm town, several years ago, at about 01:00 a.m. on Dec. 26, 2018, yes, just the day after Christmas. Right down on the corner, three apartments away from me. I was up banging away on my computer (no doubt right here on the Dope) and heard the shots.

You should have seen the swarm of police cars packing the street around the scene. They would never do that for and random schlub like you or me. There were at least six cars, plus the fire department rescue squad and and ambulance or two. They were there for about 4 hours (until about 5:00 a.m.), including knocking on nearby doors (including mine), then they were gone.

When I got up the next morning and walked down there, it was all cleaned up. That was nothing like 18 hours later.

Epilogue: This is just a quiet little farm town, but the story made national headlines, thus the above-linked story at Fox. The fact that the perp was Hispanic, probably an illegal immigrant, caught President Trump’s attention, and he publicly commented on that. Mexico sending their killer illegals to invade and kill us! ! ! !

They caught the perp several days later, in another little farm town near Bakersfield (that is, a long way from here), while he was apparently trying to make his way back to Mexico. His case came up again just a few weeks ago (4+ years later). I forget if he succeeded in pleading unfit-for-trial. Either way, he’s going to have free room and board for a long time. They also rounded up a bunch of accomplices after-the-fact who had helped harbor him.

13

The argument could also be made that a person willing to shoot a cop is more dangerous than a person who doesn’t, therefore a higher priority.

14

Can’t speak for Islam, but while Judaism requires respect for dead human bodies it also has allowances for other needs, like criminal investigations. In such cases funeral rights can be delayed until the necessary work is done, after which burial should be performed with minimal delay.

Dead bodies do not instantly become bloated plague-vectors, nor is Sacramento currently a tropical hot-house environment conductive to ultra-rapid decay. A delay of 24 hours, even without refrigeration, is not going to result in overwhelming odors or disease potential. Actually, waiting 18 hours should take the bodies past rigor mortis, which can make moving them a LOT easier than if they were rigid. Not that you can’t move a body in rigor, but depending on the position they’re in fitting them into a body bag or back of a van can be awkward or difficult.

A crime scene with multiple dead and injured is going to be more complicated than a scene with just one victim. Sure, I could see it taking more time.

15

Yes, the argument could be made. Usually by cops to justify any action no matter how unconstitutional.

Doesn’t my dead mother/wife/son deserve the same priority? “Everyone counts or no one counts.” But 18 hours is still ridiculous (see the Fox story above. They still managed to close the case with only four hours on scene, including cleanup.) Years back, there was a fatal traffic accident on my street, no crime involved, and the cops had the street closed for something like 12 hours,. What is so critical that a traffic accident can’t be cleared quicker? They weren’t out there checking bullet trajectories,

16

Dead humans must be different than dead animals, then, because they absolutely begin to stink in less than 24 hours.

17

I didn’t say “no” odor, I said overwhelming odor. Yes, they’ll start to smell but there’s a big difference between 1 hour dead, 12 hours dead, 24 hours dead, and 1 week dead.

Yes, if it’s 100 degrees out all this will progress faster, too, but we’re not in summer yet. “Room temperature” or slightly less, which is what I’d expect for being outside in Sacramento, particularly before dawn, there would be smell after 18 or 24 hours but not horrific.

18

but 6 dead & 12 more shot by over 100 bullets, & multiple shooters is obviously a more complex scene than one cop shot & would take longer to process

Car crash trajectories can be harder to calculate that bullet trajectories. Did the car get airborne? Did it flip? Did the driver who looked like he caused it lose control or did another car clip that car & cause it to spin/lose control? Did they want to wait for daylight to get pictures of everything in one evidence photo? Was there an accident investigator available (not every cop is trained in the techniques to investigate serious accidents)? If it was at an intersection & it looks like someone ran a light - if A ran the light & hit B & B dies, then A would get charged; however, if B ran the light & got hit by A & died then there wouldn’t be any charges filed or even option C - there was a power outage, it was a limited visibility intersection & one or both A & B wasn’t familiar with that intersection to expect to see a light there, in which case the municipality might be the liable party.

19

A) Absent any special reason for delay, of course the respectful thing to do with any human corpses is to remove them to a safe and private place for whatever processing is necessary, as quickly as possible.

B) I have no way of knowing what special reasons for delay there may have been in this situation, nor how quickly it was practically possible to remove the corpses from the street owing to such reasons, if any.

So, somebody please get back to me when/if there is any reliable evidence that the victim corpses in question were in fact unnecessarily and irresponsibly neglected—rather than all this “would have been” and “could have been” speculation—and I will undertake to be sincerely outraged about the disrespect thereby shown.

20

If I were a family member of a victim, I would want them to do whatever was necessary to gather evidence that could ultimately catch and convict the assailant(s). My family member is dead, they are not unnecessarily suffering by their body being left at the scene.

What would be worse is at the trial the prosecution doesn’t have the proper evidence to convict because I demanded my family members body be removed to be taken to a morgue.