Is it ethical NOT to eat the placenta?

Great Debates
41

Spoke, would you care to adress my comments made above?

Can you explain why you believe that if an act like sunbathing or eating saturated fat is unhealthy for humans evolution would have eliminated it from other mammal groups?

And can you explain why, because an act like licking the baby’s anus clean is universal to mammals, it can’t be unhealthy for humans?

Can you provide a reputable reference, you know, one by someone who actually knows about zoology, to support your claim that all mammals eat the placenta? Not something written by a nurse and clearly headed “personal experience”. Something reputable?

And can you provide a reference for your claim that eating the placenta “seems to be an instinct-driven way of conserving proteins and vitamins”?

I’ve asked these questions three times now. Are you likely to actually start engaging in this debate, or is that the end of your participiation?

42

Moderator’s Note: Please do resist these urges to question other posters’ paternity or otherwise violate the rules of the forum. That goes for everyone in this debate, of course…even in a debate on a topic as emotionally charged and vitally relevant to everyone’s lives as this one is.

43

False analogies. The harms resulting from sunbathing and eating saturated fats do not generally manifest themselves until after the peak years of reproduction have passed. Those harmful behaviors would therefore not be “weeded out” by evolution.

On the other hand, if eating a placenta were unhealthy for an animal mother, the harm would presumably be occuring during the reproductive years. If it were in fact unhealthful, those animals which practiced it would reproduce at a lower rate, and individual animals which did not would have an evolutionary advantage.

I’m sorry, but do you have evidence that licking a baby’s anus is universal to mammals? I’m quite certain that dolphins and camels don’t lick the anuses of their young. Which of course would destroy your argument.

But laying aside the snark, do you have evidence that a mother licking her nursing infant’s anus is actually unhealthy (as opposed to culturally distasteful)?

See your own cite, which (as I pointed out in my last post) sets forth the benefits of eating the placenta.

And do you mean to suggest that the behavior is not instinctive in, say, a cow? (I suppose it’s possible that the cows are reading those studies from Thailand and making educated nutritional decisions.)

OK, now answer my questions:

What did you mean by “contaminated?”

Do you mean to suggest that placentophagy is unhealthy?

Or is it just that you find it subjectively distasteful?

44

Dammit, Buck, the world must know: is it OK to eat afterbirth jerky?!

45

No. There seems to be an underlying assumption in your post that it’s unethical not to do something healthy, but I don’t see how one’s own health relates to ethics in general. Would you say it’s unethical to not eat a daily vitamin? How about changing the channel with a remote control instead of burning a few calories by getting up and pressing a button?

I like Liberal’s definition of ethics vs. morality. Under that definition, your own nutrition can only have ethical consequences if it affects someone else, for example if a mother gets sick from malnutrition and is unable to care for her child. But come on - in the 21st century, we certainly have less revolting ways to replace whatever nutrients might be contained in the placenta, so we don’t need to worry about that.

46

Incidentally, those Thai researchers seem preoccupied with the very ethical dilemma posited by the OP: the wastefulness of tossing out human placentae with the trash.

From that site:

There you go. Feed 'em to the cows. They love that stuff!

47

All I was gonna say was, “Who’s your daddy?”

Golly-doodle-dag. Everybody’s just so gosh-darn sensitive around here.

48

This is kinda been my point in this whole thread, and I probably was engaging in some minor jerkitude posting it, too. There might be a moral or safety objection to eating’s one’s own placenta, but not really an ethical one. I just got annoyed with a few threads recently asking is such-and-such-behavior ethical? and then present an argument wholly in moral terms. I never really expected this argument to hold any water… but I gotta tell you: having Blake show up and take it all seriously, deconstructing my and spoke-'s posts like a prosecuter was like frosting on the cake, man. Hilarious.

So I’ll confess now this has all been a joke that’s slightly gotten out of hand, and a particularly ridiculous argument from me at that. C’mon, Blake: even when I’m pulling shit completely out of my ass you should know I can do better than “mother wit.”

Apologies. This was too funny to pass up.

BTW: Who’s your daddy, Blake?

Bwah–!

49

But was it ethical?

50

Y’know, I asked him that very same question in post #25.

51

Can we please have some evidence that melanoma and atherosclerosis do not normally express themselves until after the age of 45?

Because the real scientists say that Generally, type II lesions erupt in the coronary arteries around puberty. …Wolkoff 58 found fatty streaks in 1 of 3 children aged 9 years, in 3 of 5 children aged 10 through 14 years, and in 6 of 8 children aged 15 through 19 years..

And WRT melanoma the experts say that in adults the incidence rates rise steadily with age, with no mention that people under 45 do not normally develop malignant melanoma.

I’m calling bullshit on your entire claim. It’s either untrue or else completely meaningless because you arbitrarily decide that when someone under 45 expresses harmful symptoms that’s not ‘normal’.

Perhaps more importantly you can explain why male dasyurids of several species universally die after their very first breeding season if behaviours that manifest themselves during peak reproductive period will always be weeded out. How can the first mating season be anything but peak reproductive period?

You quite clearly have no undertsanding of evolutionary biology whatsoever.

What, like 100% mortality amongst Dasyurid males?

Refrence for this claim please. It makes nos ense at all. 100% of male daysurids die as a reuslt of their behaviour in the first mating season. How do you explain the presence of such an indisputably unhealthy behaviour?

Sure.

(In reference to montremes)

“Grooming of the perianal region stimulates defacation and facilitates maternal grooming, a response also observed in all higher mammal species.”

Dandy, A. 1964 “Textbook of Zoology”, W.B. Saunders &Co.

Well, yeah.

A recent study showed that 55 percent of cholera cases in Bangladeshi villages could be attributed to the excess risk posed by having an asymptomatic breastfeeding child who has cholera vibrio in her or his stools (Riley et al., 1987~. Riley et al. surmise that careless handling of an infant’s feces facilitates transmission."

Unless you want to suggest that licking the feces of the anus and buttocks doesn’t constitute “careless handling” of the fecal material I think that pretty much wraps that up.

This isn’t an issue of cultural distaste. It’s the simple fact that pathogenic microbes breed in the human gut and the fecal-oral route is a well documented way of spreading such pathogens. I’m astounded that you even needed to ask.

Wrong. You are now simply weasling.

Nowhere do any of the references I provided state that eating the placenta evolved to evolved to conserve proteins and vitamins,. Nowhere at all.

Can you or can you not provide a reference for your claim that eating the placenta “seems to be an instinct-driven way of conserving proteins and vitamins”?

Can you provide a reputable reference, you know, one by someone who actually knows about zoology, to support your claim that all mammals eat the placenta? Not something written by a nurse and clearly headed “personal experience”. Something reputable?
I’ve asked these questions four times now. Are you likely to actually start engaging in this debate, or is that the end of your participiation?

I have no intention of adressing any questions from you until such time as you answer my repeatedly asked question. And mo, saying that they are somewhere in the references I listed will not suffice. If any of those refernces say that eating the placenta “seems to be an instinct-driven way of conserving proteins and vitamins” or says thta llmammals eat the placenta then quote where it says that.

52

Gosh. You put a lot of work into that post. Kudos, I guess.

And pity the poor male dasyurids!

53

Not as much as you might think. Actually having some knowledge of the subject rather than just making it up of the top of your head makes it easy to references claims. That’s because unlike you I know that the suporting information actually exists and I know where it will be.

I’d rather that you just admit that what you said had no basis in fact try not to post baseless staments as fact in GD again.

Your praise is all very nice but the fight against ignorance counts for a lot more IMO. People may still come in here and think that what you claimed has some scientific merit, which it clearly does not.

All mammals do not eat the placenta.

Traits that cause ill helath and even death will not inevitably be removed from mammal populations by evolution and can sometimes become a universla trait iof the population.

We can not conclude that behaviour such as sunbathing and eating saturated fats must be healthy just because other mammals do it. Behaviours such as those and licking the infants anus clean are perfectly healthy for other mammals species but not approriate for humans.
And IMO eating the placenta is right up there with licking the infants anus clean. Sure some other species do it. That doesn’t women have to do it, nor does it mean that it is necessary or even safe to do so.

54

Off topic:

I find it very disturbing that a thread wherein we are discussing eating placentae and licking babies’ anuses is currently generating an advertisement entitled: “Looking for minerals?”

55

:smiley:

Thank you for pointing that out.

Also curently showing “Looking for your perfect partner?”

56

Whats even funnier is that he is steam rolling on, ignoring spoke’s responses and you pointing out how comical his posts are.

57

I’m glad that you think that posting and defending ignorant and erroneous information in GD is funny.

Way to fight ignorance people. Post things you know are untrue just to get a laugh at those of us who attempt to eliminate your ignorance. This is only one step above trolling, if that.

58

See this is funny! You are all in a tizzy about spoke’s being only 99% accurate when you should realize that no one gives a shit.

59

This does not quite merit a Warning, but I trust we will not encounter a similar thread from you in the future.

It does not seem as though this was intended solely to troll, but it certain ly lurched in that direction.

If you have a serious question to discuss on the difference between ethics and morals (even if it involves dissecting SDMB threads or positions), have at it, but this thread is closed.