How do you know he would be an ineffective leader? Its not like he is going to run the goddam government all by himself. Heck I suspect he will delegate most of his work to people who may or may not be effective leaders.
Currency manipulation is a violation of the WTO agreement. We can withdraw most favored nation status and then we can raise tariffs on them without any concern that anyone other than China would reciprocate. We have pretty much been getting our ears flicked and said “C’mon guys stop. I MEAN it!!!” Is Trump going to be even weaker than that?
Its not just individual consumers that we sell to
Baby formula and food products generally, they don’t trust their own food supply. Years ago, I would bring boxes (literally cases) of Levi jeans with me when I went to China. Now they’re made there. These days I bring cases of Enfamil powder.
Russia hacked computers on U.S. soil. Why isn’t that enough to piss you off…unless you are another of those “The ends justify the means” right-wing jackasses that will look the other way for your prez.
How do you know he would be an ineffective leader? Its not like he is going to run the goddam government all by himself. Heck I suspect he will delegate most of his work to people who may or may not be effective leaders.
Currency manipulation is a violation of the WTO agreement. We can withdraw most favored nation status and then we can raise tariffs on them without any concern that anyone other than China would reciprocate. We have pretty much been getting our ears flicked and said “C’mon guys stop. I MEAN it!!!” Is Trump going to be even weaker than that?
Its not just individual consumers that we sell to
Baby formula and food products generally, they don’t trust their own food supply. Years ago, I would bring boxes (literally cases) of Levi jeans with me when I went to China. Now they’re made there. These days I bring cases of Enfamil powder.
Construction equipment.
Boeing airplanes.
Cars.
Coal. They import a lot of our coal.
Do you know what you are reading?
Take a look at this and tell me if you can tell me why anti-dumping actions against japan and China for “certain cold rolled steel products” is fucking peanuts compared to worldwide steel production.
Please go on and tell me how much you know about China.
Where do you get that from?
How the fuck does Armani even enter the conversation unless you really really want it to.
We make many of those thing here already. Other than the electronics, which we were getting relatively cheaply from Korea and Japan before this, and clothing which we can get pretty cheaply from Latin America, tell me again why we need China more than they need us?
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So yeah, trump could very well be responsible for increasing the cost of living or decreasing the standard of living for the average american consumer by a pretty significant amount.
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You’re wrong. What percentage of the average household’s consumption do you think consists of Chinese made products?
You realize that China only came online a few decades ago and we had plenty of cheap Asian products well before then, right?
No, you’re wrong. If they disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow we would get through it. We would just buy shit from korea and Taiwan. If we disappeared, China would have a revolution.
We used to get this stuff relatively cheaply from korea and Japan. Why wouldn’t we able to get back to that state of affairs?
When you say “plenty” what do you think that word means? As a percentage, how much of our imports do you think consist of iphones and luxury items?
Trade wars don’t go well for anyone but it would be wore for China than us. I was refuting the notion that we need them more than they need us. That is just retarded.
What then fuck did they do other than expose the truth? Why is the truth so abhorrent to you? Because it exposed Hillary as the conniving corrupt plutocrat that she is?
Sure it bothers me that Russia hacked us. I don’t see how that makes Trump Russia’s puppet?
Just cut out the “we” crap, already. When someone spends THAT much time bashing someone who they claim is the better candidate, that someone is usually full of shit. You couldn’t have done a better job if Trump had paid you.
The emails did not reveal anything of the sort. They were completely harmless and only showed the normal back-and-forth discussions among colleagues while they’re hammering out a position.
This is naive. It’s not about the truth being abhorrent. If Russia hacked to show up Clinton they could have done the same to Trump but didn’t. Or are you honestly so silly as to think Trump would have no skeletons in the closet?
They only leaked one way. That means they wanted to help Trump. Do you think this was because the goodness of their hearts meant they were deeply concerned about Americans being ruled by Clinton the conniving plutocrat? Don’t be stupid.
That doesn’t mean Trump is Russia’s puppet. It does mean they consider Russian interests to be best served by a Trump presidency. And there’s no reason to think Russian interests will coincide with yours. It also means they have scratched Trump’s back which means Trump will be motivated to return the favour.
Plugging for him? I don’t know if anyone’s told you, but he’s won already! I’m assigning blame. And you can keep making excuses for hilalry’s loss but its HER loss. Trump was not some invincible political juggernaut that couldn’t be stopped. We just nominated a very flawed candidate because she insisted it was her turn.
What? Grabbing by the pussy stuff wasn’t enough for you? Are you under the impression that Hillary was the only one that was a victim of the inevitable transparency that modern technology has brought us?
What skeletons do you imagine Trump had? How did he pervert and corrupt the system to steal the nomination away from the other Republican candidates?
A lot of people are just sore because the truth showed Hillary to be a corrupt plutocrat.
Now that the Clinton political capital is on the decline, do you think that the Clinton Foundation is going to get MORE donations or less?
What could they have leaked about the primaries about Trump that would have hurt him? Don’t be stupid.
Or they just like fucking with us.
Trump doesn’t feel obligated to anyone unless he has signed on the dotted line and even then its only 50/50.
FWIW, one of the talking heads on the teevee was opining this past week that the Russians – like virtually everyone else, pollsters and bookies and so on – figured Hillary was going to win; and figured it’d be in Russia’s best interest if she won a bruising contest that left her as weak as possible vis-a-vis the opposition that’d naturally try to block her at every turn the way they did Obama.
If so, then they wanted – or were resigned to – a Clinton presidency, and merely wanted her to take office with a minimal mandate amidst bad publicity.
Like I said, the consensus among everyone except people with heads up their asses is that the hacked emails didn’t reveal anything worth getting excited over. In any case, if Donna did reveal ONE question, how does that prove that Hillary is a “corrupt plutocrat”? You haven’t proved a thing, so give it a rest.
Democrats biased against a non-democrat joining into the party just in time to run? OMG!!!
And it’s not like the emails were actionable, just some bitching and ideas that never got used. If you can show me an email where they actually planned and executed anything that actually hurt bernie, I may change my mind on that, but as the worst thing I have seen was people thinking about bringing up bernie’s atheism, and that idea being shot down, I am not sure why you care so much.
One question. And a question that was pretty obvious. I will agree that they shouldn’t have done it at all, but I don’t think that it is worth condemning the entire DNC over. We don’t even know if the question was shared with hillary.
Hidden, none. But cared about with your hyperventilating hysterics on how horrible clinton is?
Because putin probably has all the emails from the trump campaing too, to use as blackmail.
Plus, Trump is already probably russia’s bitch for financial reasons. Trump’s credit was so poor that US banks wouldn’t lend to him, so he had to go overseas. We don’t know who and how much he owes, as he did not release such information, but it is very likely that Trump is in hock with respect to russia. That’s what makes him Putin’s bitch.
Why do you think he will be such a fantastic leader? Has the people that he has picked so far been competent or effective?
Yes, he will delegate the running of the country to others, I am sure as well, but do you really think that the people he picks for those positions are going to be effective in ensuring the wealth and prosperity of the US, or just for themselves?
Yep, and we have made such threats before. First you have to prove that they are manipulating their currency, which they deny.
People got the death penalty over the whole melamine in the milk thing. I can understand why people still may not trust the food supply so shortly after such a thing, but it is actually kind of unlikely to happen again. It will not be long before Chinese are able to trust their food supply more than ours. (Keep in mind that some of the departments that Trump wants to gut are the ones that inspect our food supply.)
They may be importing now, but they are ramping up their own facilities. Not much longer before they are producing more and higher quality than us.
Those we may have a little bit before China doesn’t need to import those from other countries anymore, but we are also not the only country that makes such things.
And they are currently rolling out nuke plants, as well as doing heavy research on next gen nuclear power systems, they won’t need our coal much longer. Also, there are other places to get coal. Finally, we don’t necessarily want them burning all that coal that we ship them, either, for climate change and pollution reasons.
Does look like we are buying more from them than they are from us. Can you do the math differently than that, to come up with a different number?
Am I looking at my own cite, or did you mean to put something in there?
For my own cite, it does state that meaningful damage has been done to the US steel industry as a result of steel dumping in the US. What part of that did you take exception to?
That is just one of the examples of one sided trade practices that China takes against us.
I assume that you are being sarcastic here, and I am sure you know the Chinese govt like they were your bestest buds, so you tell me, why wouldn’t China take advantage of us if they perceive us as weak?
From your post, #407.
Because you implied that products manufactured in China are cheap. A very quick google found that Armani products, as well as Prada, two products that are generally not thought of as cheap, are mainly manufactured in China.
What is the population and land size of korea and japan compared to China? Do you really think that those two countries will be able to retool and supply our demand for consumer products, and they won’t raise the price? The reason that we went to china from japan was specifically because it was cheaper, now you are saying that it is fine to go back, and that there will be no problems with it whatsoever.
Specifically, in terms of household consumption, it’s pretty low. 3-4% if I remember correctly. But that’s after all your bills. Obviously, your mortgage or rent isn’t a chinese consumable good. Your dinner, whether bought at the grocery store or at a restaurant isn’t a chinese consumable good. Your car is very unlikely to be chinese. Your lawyer, your CPA, your doctor and dentist, these all do not contribute to the household consumption of chinese goods.
It’s only when we get into semi-discretionary spending that we really get into them. Your tube socks and underwear go from $5 a bag to $8. Then when your iphone costs 1200 instead of 800, or your computer costs 2250 instead of 1500, will you still not notice? Do you think the average household won’t notice?
Where was the computer that you are typing on made?
Where was your phone made?
Yeah, I had a little tiger video game made in japan.
Didn’t have an iphone.
Assuming that Korea and Japan are cool with gong back to the state of affairs of the 80’s, they’d still need time to retool their factories to produce our goods, and as the japanese and koreans enjoy a much higher standard and cost of living then China, we would not get nearly the same level of discount. We may as well just make the stuff here.
In 2014, we imported over $50 billion in cellphones from China, so I guess nearly 10% of imports from china just in that catagory alone.
If we were the only two countries in the world, or if the US was the only place for china to sell its goods, then you would have a point.
As the us only makes up about 5% of the population, I don’t know that China needs us as much as you seem to think it does.
If bernie had gotten the nod, and all his socialist ways came out in such a way to turn off every republican, and democrats refused to vote for him because he’s pretty pro-gun, and he lost, what would your excuse be then?
Hillary is no more or less horrible than any other politician, you’ve just bought into the right wing propaganda.
They exposed little bits of the truth that they felt (correctly) would be over reacted to and be damaging to hillary. They did this because it was in russia’s best interest to have Trump as president, rather than hillary. They did not hack the RNC emails, or the Trump HQ emails, and expose all their dirt. Do you think that just because russia did not expose trump’s dirt, that means he doesn’t have any?
I agree entirely with describing hillary as conniving, that’s just being smart. I think I could agree with the plutocrat part, but that’s kinda the way our country has been running from the beginning. You need better proof than a couple emails that were provided to you by one of our oldest and greatest enemies that she is corrupt in any way that crosses legal or ethical lines.
Nobody on this board was arguing that Trump didn’t really have any faults, there didn’t seem to be much sense in a trump bashing circle jerk. The board was rife with people who thought Hillary didn’t have any faults worth mentioning and they kept ignoring issue after issue.
Then when she lost, they insisted that Trump would have beaten anybody like he was some invincible political genius. Actually they waffle between unbeatable political juggernaut and idiot who probably shits his pants twice a day.
She’s a cheater. How is it that you can see one video of a cop killing a black man and planting a gun on him and assume that it happens all the time, but when factual evidence of foul [play is presented, you just sweep it under the rug.
If wikileaks revealed next week that Trump had gotten debate questions before his debates with Hillary, you’d be screaming bloody fucking murder regardless of whether the Russians helped unveil that duplicity.
Hillary is corrupt, the emails prove it Her corruption may not rise to a level that bothers you but it bothers a lot of people who put ethics ahead of partisan politics.
How do you know what happened outside of the email chain? I mean we already know Hillary cheats.
How do you know that they weren’t tweaking the debate schedule to minimize anyone’s ability to effectively challenge Hillary? Its not like Hillary didn’t give Debbie Wasserman Schultz a spot on her campaign as soon as she got booted from the DNC.
How do you know they weren’t letting Hillary tell them how to run the DNC before she was the nominee? How do you know that the personal non-state department related emails that Hillary deleted weren’t emails between her and debbie wasserman schultz scheming about how to clear the field so that Hillary would run virtually unopposed?
Conspiracy theory you say? Sure! Of Course! But now that we know she is a cheater and that she has deleted a bunch of her emails and that she says one thing in public and another thing to plutocrats in her private speeches, why is any of that so incredible?
If there is doubt in your mind about whether the question was shared with the Hillary campaign, then I think you may want to check your objectivity in this matter. She is a cheater plain and simple. You can try to minimize the cheating but its still cheating and it says something about her.
So then why the fuck does it matter who helped uncover Hilary’s corruption?
Really? We have actual proof of Hillary’s corruption and you wave it away but you think that Russia kept something in reserve to blackmail Trump with? Are you fucking serious? Russia also thought Trump was going to lose.
Pffft. I’ve seen how he treats his creditors. Owing money to someone does not make him their bitch it makes them HIS bitch.
I think he will probably be a horrible leader but I am willing to wait for evidence before I start setting my hair on fire.
I think they will do what Republicans always do. Or do you think Trump will be the first Republican administration to give out contracts to companies like Halliburton? I bet Exxon Mobil gets to drill for oil in the ANWR before the midterm elections.
I don’t think Trump gives a shit about proof. He wants a head on a pike to show the masses.
How long would it be before you fed this stuff to YOUR children. I am not bringing baby formula to some guy that works in a factory, these are educated people with means and they don’t trust their food.
And they are not the only country that makes the shit that they make.
You are looking at it bass ackwards. They need our markets, we don’t need theirs.
The part that describes the teeny tiny fucking sliver of China trade is accounted for by the described trade violation. “Certain cold rolled steel products” which accounts for less than half a billion dollars worth of Chinese and Japanese imports COMBINED.
IIRC the claim was that China ate our lunch on steel. I pointed out that China did not eat our lunch on steel in any meaningful sense. The steel industry moved from the US to Japan a looong time ago. Then from there to Korea and then from there to Indonesia.
And we are going to impose tariffs on them over it.
You are assuming that they perceive a crazy man in the white house as weakness.
And how much of their production does that represent? The majority of products coming from China are coming from China because of price, not quality.
Japan and Korea have about 200 million people engaged in a modern industrialized economy.
China has about 7 times as many people but there are only about 100 million factory workers. Much of China is still living in the 19th century with a few modern accents like cell phones and indoor plumbing. That is the trade threat. Modern economic trade theory assumes something close to full employment, not an economy that has 20% of its population participating in the global economy and 80% scratching dirt waiting for more factories to open up so they can enjoy the economic growth.
I realize that you are just guessing about a lot of these prices but if everything doubled and I doubt it would, you are talking about a 3 or 4% increase coupled with higher domestic employment and perhaps higher wage levels. I mean seriously 3 or 4%?
And your computer is iphone is not likely to go to 1200 when you can buy a much better samsung or nokia for 700. It is much more likely that we would outsource some components from places like Germany, Korea and Taiwan and make the rest here and increase the price by about $100 assuming apple insisted on making the same profit margin.
China. But the laws of physics does not require this to be so.
Are you under the impression that iphones are just too hard for the Japanese to make?
Korea would LOVE to make flat screen TVs and electronics again. Those were good factory jobs that propelled economic growth and higher wages. With robotics going the way its going, you could afford to pay a factory worker quite a bit without disrupting the economics too much. Japan might be comfortable with their decades long economic stagnation but I think they would welcome the economic activity as well.
We make up something like a quarter of the world’s consumption. We can buy from elsewhere and see a 1 or 2% increase in our cost of living. China would see a near 25% reduction in its exports (directly or indirectly through Hong Kong). And even though exports are a only a quarter of its economy, it drives much of the growth in every other sector in China. They need us a lot more than we need them.
Why do you assume he would have lost? Bernie’s socialist message is no less appealing to rust belt swing voters than Trump’s blatant bigotry and all the other shit that we hate him for.
Bernie is pro-gun because he isn’t a pandering idiot. And while I can’t prove that Bernie would have won, I can prove that Hillary lost. When you engage in corruption and cheat to win a primary because you think that the primary is what counts, then you better fucking win. You can’t cheat your way to the nomination, lose and then say “well the other guys would have lost too” Not against Donald bobblehead Trump.
You may have had more than your share of propaganda kool aid as well. Not every politician is as corrupt and unethical as Hillary. But lets just take one example. How is Bernie as corrupt and unethical as Hillary?
What secret dirt? You’re just speculating. We have pussy grabbing, Trump U., bankruptcies, and a slew of other shit and none of it mattered because Hillary was so corrupt that people preferred the devil they didn’t know to the devil they did.
cheating on a debate is cheating. I don’t know how acceptable that is where you’re from but where I’m from cheating is bad and in and of itself is a reason for you to lose.