Is it wrong for 15-year olds to be sexually active?

[Lasciel]

@Left_Hand_of_Dorkness

Lasciel isn’t trying to be creepy, but imagine this situation:

Phone: Hello?
Daughter: Hi, this isn’t Bergkamp’s daughter. My dad said that before I had sex with your 17-year-old ex-girlfriend, I had to tell him about her sexual history. Could you tell me how far you went with her, so I can tell dad?

It obviously wouldn’t go down QUITE that creepily, but there’s a huge difference between, of your own volition, asking mutual friends about what your beau/belle has been up to in the past, and asking strangers this question on assignment from your dad. The former is totally fine and is one of those great uses of gossip; the latter is totally creepy.

I’m with you - I didn’t realize that the daughter and the girlfriend didn’t have ANY friends in common from camp. I’m totally not advocating calling up strangers! I just figured they would both know some people in common and daughter could throw in some trawling-type hints about the girlfriend during conversations.

I really think someone should film a conversation like the one you proposed. It’s awesomely awkward.
(and for clarity’s sake, the reason I included the report to dad part is that if there is no report requirement, daughter may very well just make stuff up herself, or not bother actually talking to girlfriend about it. Not knowing her other than the sneaking part makes me wonder if she’d try to slide out of a serious talk with girlfriend because the two of them are OMG soul mates and that’s totally unnecessary, daaad - unless she actually has to report something of substance, and then they can have the conversation with much eye-rolling and heaving sighs of how they’re so beyond all that - but the conversation still gets had.)

I do however like (much better than my idea) the poster’s comment above that suggested taking them *both *to a clinic to get tested. I think that’s a very good idea, and saves daughter from the potential creepy vibe.

[Mtgman]

I don’t have a lot of advice for your particular situation, but I’d like to share one of the more interesting things I’ve read recently regarding parenting teenagers. There is an overview of some of the more recent neuroscience in October 2011’s issue of National Geographic, as the cover story. Some choice excerpts from the article that you can read online here

Over the past five years or so, even as the work-in-progress story spread into our culture, the discipline of adolescent brain studies learned to do some more-complex thinking of its own. A few researchers began to view recent brain and genetic findings in a brighter, more flattering light, one distinctly colored by evolutionary theory. The resulting account of the adolescent brain—call it the adaptive-adolescent story—casts the teen less as a rough draft than as an exquisitely sensitive, highly adaptable creature wired almost perfectly for the job of moving from the safety of home into the complicated world outside.
…
We all like new and exciting things, but we never value them more highly than we do during adolescence. Here we hit a high in what behavioral scientists call sensation seeking: the hunt for the neural buzz, the jolt of the unusual or unexpected.

Seeking sensation isn’t necessarily impulsive. You might plan a sensation-seeking experience—a skydive or a fast drive—quite deliberately, as my son did. Impulsivity generally drops throughout life, starting at about age 10, but this love of the thrill peaks at around age 15. And although sensation seeking can lead to dangerous behaviors, it can also generate positive ones: The urge to meet more people, for instance, can create a wider circle of friends, which generally makes us healthier, happier, safer, and more successful.
…
Excitement, novelty, risk, the company of peers. These traits may seem to add up to nothing more than doing foolish new stuff with friends. Look deeper, however, and you see that these traits that define adolescence make us more adaptive, both as individuals and as a species. That’s doubtless why these traits, broadly defined, seem to show themselves in virtually all human cultures, modern or tribal. They may concentrate and express themselves more starkly in modern Western cultures, in which teens spend so much time with each other. But anthropologists have found that virtually all the world’s cultures recognize adolescence as a distinct period in which adolescents prefer novelty, excitement, and peers. This near-universal recognition sinks the notion that it’s a cultural construct.

Culture clearly shapes adolescence. It influences its expression and possibly its length. It can magnify its manifestations. Yet culture does not create adolescence. The period’s uniqueness rises from genes and developmental processes that have been selected for over thousands of generations because they play an amplified role during this key transitional period: producing a creature optimally primed to leave a safe home and move into unfamiliar territory.

The move outward from home is the most difficult thing that humans do, as well as the most critical—not just for individuals but for a species that has shown an unmatched ability to master challenging new environments. In scientific terms, teenagers can be a pain in the ass. But they are quite possibly the most fully, crucially adaptive human beings around. Without them, humanity might not have so readily spread across the globe.

Enjoy,
Steven

[MissesA]

I would just make sure she is careful. If you tell her no she will resent you.

[YogSothoth]

@even_sven

You guys really think it’s appropriate for a high school sophomore to openly have sex in her parent’s house with a casual partner while her parents are there? Even as a full-grown adult, I wouldn’t be comfortable doing that! You’re mom’s house is not your bachelor pad.

Other than “its icky”, what’s a good reason against it? They’re sexually active, they have to do it somewhere, might as well offer a warm and safe place to do it instead of behind a dumpster behind the theater. Plus, going by the first post, its 2 girls right? Not like they can get pregnant.

[gaffa]

Nobody in this whole thread has mentioned what may be the most important element of a 15 year old’s life - the electronic one. They met at camp, then the girlfriend visited. Between those two points in time, if they are anything like the teens I know, they have been having a deeply personal relationship carried on via text messaging, e-mail, Facebook posts, and any of a dozen other methods of communication. You have no idea what they have discussed in the time between heading home from the camp and their reunion - plans for the future, what they would do when they got together, etc.

Unless the OP has only one computer in a family area, and the OP’s daughter is the only one in her peer group without a cell, they have in all likelihood been involved in a passionate relationship for quite some time of which the OP is completely unaware.

One of my jobs is computer tech. I clean up spyware infected family PCs. That means I see the residue of what web sites they have visited.

And, on occasion, under duress, I have installed deliberate spying software like Spector Pro for the parents. This is software that logs every keystroke, e-mail, web page visited, text message sent and received, etc. I wound up producing a standard speech about the fact that they were going to learn things that they were going to wish they had never learned.

One client was a bit surprised to discover that her daughter’s Xanga handle (this was years ago when Facebook was college only) was SusanLovesTheCock.

[even_sven]

Do you guys approve of those situation where a girl’s boyfriend moves in when they are 15 or 16? We had a few of those in high school, and it always struck me as strange.

And FTR my parents were not exceptionally strict. They gave me money to rent a hotel room after the prom, and allowed my boyfriend to stay overnight when they were not home. But this came when I was 17, not 15, and after a process of building trust and slowly having my approach to relationships evolve. Even then, looking back, I wish they hadn’t have done that. They shouldn’t have encouraged or enabled me to invest in one guy when I was that young.

@YogSosoth

Other than “its icky”, what’s a good reason against it? They’re sexually active, they have to do it somewhere, might as well offer a warm and safe place to do it instead of behind a dumpster behind the theater. Plus, going by the first post, its 2 girls right? Not like they can get pregnant.

A couple reasons.

One is that the parents said “no.” One of the best skills you can learn in life is how not to have sex in situations where it will have bad consequences. You don’t “have to do it.” We are capable of controlling ourselves. In most cases, it’s not appropriate to have sex in someone else’s house. The exceptions are pretty rare, limited to the occasional trashy house party and the like.

Anyway, it makes the parents uncomfortable, and if your sex is making people around you uncomfortable then you need to change what you are doing (which may well simply mean you being more discrete…you should be able to figure out how to have sex without announcing it to the whole world.) Discretion is a good skill. If you “need” to have sex somewhere, you should be at a point in your life where you can arrange a place to have sex that isn’t pissing people off.

Another is that a relationship, at that age, should still be casual. As I mentioned before, a teenage girl should not be engaging in the self-sacrifice, compromise, and difficult choices that come with a “real” long-term relationship. She should not, for example, be choosing what college to go to based on where her girlfriend is going to be. She needs to, at this stage, be doing what is best for her. The parents cannot prevent her from falling in love, but they can encourage her to think of the girlfriend in the right context. One way to do that is to avoid rewarding them from “playing house” and taking on the trappings of a mature adult relationship. They can continue to treat the girlfriend as a casual friend, a small part of their daughter’s life and time. This may include not providing a venue where they can make their relationship deeper.

@Mtgman

I don’t have a lot of advice for your particular situation, but I’d like to share one of the more interesting things I’ve read recently regarding parenting teenagers. There is an overview of some of the more recent neuroscience in October 2011’s issue of National Geographic, as the cover story. Some choice excerpts from the article that you can read online hereEnjoy,
Steven

Our bodies are also extraordinarily well-tuned to getting nice and pregnant at around 13 and staying that way pretty much continuously until we knock off. Is that a good plan, as well? We have moved from a species that has a large number of children that we put a low investment in, with the expectation that we’ll probably lose half of them, to a species that has a few children that we put a lot of investment in. Our society is such that delayed gratification and an extended childhood lead to healthier, wealthier lives in the long term.

[Acid_Lamp]

Even Sven, You are still making the mistake of equating your personal experiences as being a good guide to everyone else. Just because YOU may have reservations, regrets, unfulfilled wishes, or things didn’t go entirely as you would have liked, does not mean that your analysis and conclusion is the only “correct” one.

Many of us were and are ready for sex at a younger age then you were. Many of us are able to separate out physical pleasure and true love. Teens are capable of this as well. Some people really do fall in love at that age and stay together; most do not. A parent should be providing guidance on this topic while allowing their child to grow as a person. They are ready, when they are ready. It is rather unlikely that in a lesbian relationship either of them are going to be pressured into doing something they don’t really want to do. Why do you assume that sex equates to a deeply serious relationship, or that casual sex is “trashy”? That might be your personal feeling, but there are plenty of us who have great relationships and enjoyable casual sex as well.

The rest of you post reads like a hysterical Saturday afternoon special about the horrors of sex. Lesbians cannot get pregnant, and disease among them is remarkably low. Nothing will prevent a lovesick young adult from following their amour to school but good common sense on the part of the young person. it is not as if sex immediately precludes all else.

[Ian_D.Bergkamp]

There’s a lot of good food for thought here. Thanks everyone, and especially to Maggie the Ocelot for sharing her experience. Thanks also to Mtgman for the National Geographic article. We actually get NG here at the house, so I’d read the article, but it was worth reading again.

I confess, I’m still struggling with the reasoning that “kids are going to have sex, it’s better to provide a safe place for them to do it.” Part of the problem for me is that I have an 11-year old daughter as well. As the younger sibling, she gets exposed to things at a younger age than her sister did, so what do I tell her if she starts to become interested in sex at 14 or 13? (As far as we know, she’s heterosexual, so there may be different issues at play.)

I’m still uncomfortable condoning sex for my 15-year old right now. I just don’t think that she–this particular 15-year old–is ready. But it’s not a dead issue; we’re discussing it. And I am very grateful that my family has some time to work through the matter before it becomes urgent. That’s the nice part of her being in a long-distance relationship at this age, I suppose.

As gaffa correctly pointed out, they are together online and communciate by phone and text. I’m sure there’s stuff going on there that I don’t know about. That’s part of the conversation, too, though I am less worried about that than I am actual physical sex, which I believe carries greater emotional risks (not to mention the physical ones).

[even_sven]

Don’t twist my words. I said the sort of house party where people have sex in other people’s bedrooms are trashy. They are. Likewise, you don’t know a ton about my early sex life, and I don’t appreciate your baseless speculation, especially since in this particular case you are really off the mark. It’s not about me, and stop trying to twist it into being about me.

Anyway, I think I’ve said my piece. A parent is a good judge of their child’s maturity, and can take some measures to create an environment where that child’s relationships are more likely to progress in line with their maturity level, and it’s not unreasonable to do so. You cannot force your values, but you can communicate them- and if “young relationships should progress slowly” is something that they happen to believe in, it’s not unfair for them to, at least in terms of what happens in their home, convey that through action.

If a child is mature enough to handle their sexuality in a way that it’s not being made their parent’s business, then there is some chance that they are mature enough to be doing what they are doing. But mom and dad are not your wingman. They do not need to help you arrange your hookups. Figure out how to act independently, with adult discretion, and then you can have all the sex you want without making the people who raised you uncomfortable.

[Ian_D.Bergkamp]

Thanks, even sven. This part in particular really resonates with me:

@even_sven

A parent is a good judge of their child’s maturity, and can take some measures to create an environment where that child’s relationships are more likely to progress in line with their maturity level, and it’s not unreasonable to do so. You cannot force your values, but you can communicate them- and if “young relationships should progress slowly” is something that they happen to believe in, it’s not unfair for them to, at least in terms of what happens in their home, convey that through action.

[even_sven]

Glad to throw in my perspective.

Also note that “love” and emotion is not the only ways for a relationship to begin taking on too large of a role in someone’s life. Sex for the sake of sex can also become pretty distracting. Even mature adults, when they are with an exciting new partner, go through a face of “OMG This is the only thing I ever want to do, ever!” It’s a really good feeling. It takes practice and maturity to master “No, ugh, I can’t call in sick and have sex all morning instead.” and “Sorry Bob, I’m not going to spend both Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights screwing because I really ought to maintain relationships with my girlfriends and keep some balance in my life.”

[PandaBear77]

@I'm Not Dennis Bergkamp

Which leads to my question: is it wrong?

Why yes, yes it is.

Well that was easy …

[Ian_D.Bergkamp]

@PandaBear77

Why yes, yes it is.

Well that was easy …

Ah, if only it were that easy.

[jackdavinci]

@PandaBear77

Why yes, yes it is.

Well that was easy …

lol. If it’s so easy, explain why, in small words a teenager will understand and believe.

[Mtgman]

@even_sven

Our bodies are also extraordinarily well-tuned to getting nice and pregnant at around 13 and staying that way pretty much continuously until we knock off. Is that a good plan, as well? We have moved from a species that has a large number of children that we put a low investment in, with the expectation that we’ll probably lose half of them, to a species that has a few children that we put a lot of investment in. Our society is such that delayed gratification and an extended childhood lead to healthier, wealthier lives in the long term.

Onset of menses, menarche, throughout most of human history, thus the age most common for evolutionary analysis, would have been higher. Probably fifteen would be the average in a hunter-gatherer society.

Most of your point I don’t disagree with and the article doesn’t either. This is more informational to understand what is driving a 15 year old, not advocating a hands-off course of action. If you’re going to be driving a car you need to know if it’s a truck or a sports car. Teenagers are more like sports cars and require careful handling to avoid a wreck. Understanding what makes them go is key to this. The last few paragraphs of the article I linked to have the following passage that has pretty much the same sentiment you expressed.

This adaptive-adolescence view, however accurate, can be tricky to come to terms with—the more so for parents dealing with teens in their most trying, contrary, or flat-out scary moments. It’s reassuring to recast worrisome aspects as signs of an organism learning how to negotiate its surroundings. But natural selection swings a sharp edge, and the teen’s sloppier moments can bring unbearable consequences. We may not run the risk of being killed in ritualistic battles or being eaten by leopards, but drugs, drinking, driving, and crime take a mighty toll. My son lives, and thrives, sans car, at college. Some of his high school friends, however, died during their driving experiments. Our children wield their adaptive plasticity amid small but horrific risks.

We parents, of course, often stumble too, as we try to walk the blurry line between helping and hindering our kids as they adapt to adulthood. The United States spends about a billion dollars a year on programs to counsel adolescents on violence, gangs, suicide, sex, substance abuse, and other potential pitfalls. Few of them work.

Yet we can and do help. We can ward off some of the world’s worst hazards and nudge adolescents toward appropriate responses to the rest. Studies show that when parents engage and guide their teens with a light but steady hand, staying connected but allowing independence, their kids generally do much better in life. Adolescents want to learn primarily, but not entirely, from their friends. At some level and at some times (and it’s the parent’s job to spot when), the teen recognizes that the parent can offer certain kernels of wisdom—knowledge valued not because it comes from parental authority but because it comes from the parent’s own struggles to learn how the world turns. The teen rightly perceives that she must understand not just her parents’ world but also the one she is entering. Yet if allowed to, she can appreciate that her parents once faced the same problems and may remember a few things worth knowing.

One of those kernels of wisdom would be our own romantic missteps and heartbreaks, so hopefully the adolescent can steer clear of the worst outcomes.

Enjoy,
Steven

[treis]

@even_sven

Do you guys approve of those situation where a girl’s boyfriend moves in when they are 15 or 16?

Moving in is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

The point is that 15 is a reasonable age to begin exploring sexuality. By denying them a safe and secure outlet, you push them into locations that aren’t secure. Like in the backseat of a car or a room at school, where there could be repercussions.

[Electric_Warrior]

tl;dr ahead -

I think the best sign the daughter is not ready for a mature relationship is the fact that she disobeyed a rule, as someone else brought up. And as even sven said, you’re her parents, and you seem to have a close relationship (which is really great), so you can be a judge of this.

As for the emotional risks, regardless of whether or not this is an absolute truth, our culture places a high value on the intimacy of a sexual relationship. Allowing someone else to be intimate with you in that way requires a great deal of trust. You’re trusting the other person to be sensitive to your feelings and what you’re ready for, and to continue to be loving and supportive of you even after this dynamic has changed in a relationship. Having this trust broken is very painful and for someone young, can be bewildering and overwhelming. Entering into a relationship always means allowing yourself to become vulnerable to some extent; the more intimate, the more vulnerable. That’s not inherently a bad thing - it just means you have to be careful about how you approach a serious relationship. I definitely didn’t know that at 15, and I probably didn’t know how to choose people I was willing to reveal that side of me to.

The flipside of that is that at 15, especially with our rather broken educational system (I’m assuming you’re American), a young person may not fully understand what consent is and how to be sure that her partner is actively consenting - how to check in and make sure her partner is okay at various intervals - and how to make sure that she isn’t pressuring her partner.

I think her age is not what makes her not ready. What makes her not ready is that, as someone who has not had a lot of interest in a sexual relationship before, she doesn’t really know about this stuff! I’m Not Dennis Bergkamp, I think you and your wife should continue to have an open dialogue with your daughter on these issues as well as the physical ones, and as some other people in this thread recommended, she should start seeing a gynecologist.

Because it is true that she has now started a sexual relationship, so she still needs to know these things, regardless of whether you approve.

I agree with the people who have said she isn’t ready now but she could be ready after taking such steps. (I disagree with Lasciel’s suggestion that she do it all by herself. I think having parents who want to be involved in making sure she is doing things responsibly makes her really lucky, so don’t squander that.)

There is also a great value to being parents who set rules, and enforce them. If your rules get broken, and consequences are enforced, your daughter won’t assume that she can get away with whatever she wants. Even having some rules that she may deem arbitrary can be good for her. It is kiiiind of a thing that kids do naturally push boundaries, and keeping the boundaries a little closer than is strictly necessary means that she can do that without causing herself a whole lot of harm.

My parents were very strict with me until I left for college, and when they did let up on rules it was based on how old I was as well as how mature they observed me to be. I still disagree with some of their choices and if I ever have children I won’t enforce all of their rules. But I’m old enough to realize now that they were so strict because they love me and wanted me to enjoy the best possible quality of life. Someday your daughter will see that too.

[AHunter3]

I don’t think it is ever kosher to impose the “no sex” rule on anyone, at any age. I regard it as a rule that is inherently oppressive. (Note that this does not equate to saying it is wrong to have an age of consent stipulation that stands between 15 year olds and 22 year olds, see prior thread on age of consent).

Fifteen years old is ninth grade. The age of interest in maybe having sex with someone, if given the opportunity, seemed to be around sixth or seventh grade back in the geological era when I was a kid. The age of acting upon it was a distribution fading in in 7th through 9th grades and getting rather prominent in 10th and 11th grades until by the end of high school it was considered less normal to have not done it than to have done it.

If she’s capable of explaining why she wants to, is capable of identifying the primary concerns (STDs, pregnancy, being ready for it emotionally) and why she thinks she’s ready and prepared, what’s wrong with sex at 15?

[Vihaga]

@AHunter3

I don’t think it is ever kosher to impose the “no sex” rule on anyone, at any age. I regard it as a rule that is inherently oppressive.

Obviously, this situation is a little different because a female-female sexual relationship doesn’t have the same STD/pregnancy risks as a hetero one, but a big part of it is that if a 15 year old gets pregnant or has medical issues related to an STD, the parents are still on the hook for the financial and logistical consequences, being responsible for a minor. Even at 15, a kid should be able to respect that they shouldn’t be writing checks that their parents are going to have to cash.

It’s an awkward time, but the people who are going to be paying for an abortion or child care for the next couple years should probably have some say in what risks they’re willing to accept. Now, I think a lot of situations allow for education and trust to minimize those risks rather than a strict prohibition, but if they have a naive, untrustworthy, irresponsible 15 year old, I think the parents have a right to try to restrict how much idiocy they’re going to be on the hook for.

[kanicbird]

I’d suggest I’m Not Dennis Bergkamp read Romeo and Juliet, these forces are way to strong to oppose.

Usually the answer is right in the person’s reply, just reflected onto the other person:

We’ve struggled to come up with any explanation beyond “sex is a very complex thing that affects people physically, mentally, and emotionally and you’re just not mature enough right now to handle that.”
[/quote]

I would say the above should be changed to reflect the true issue, you are not ready (mature enough if you will) for her to be sexual active, but she is, it’s not a bottle that can be put around the genie again.