Sorry, but you’ve got the relative importance backwards. Friendship may have turned physical at the camp (doesn’t matter how small it is, they could have had some time alone together) but the emotional relationship has grown and blossomed on-line. If you combine the inherent passions of their ages, the 24/7 electronic contact of their peer group and the length of time they were physically separated…I would not be the slightest bit surprised if they have become as close as any couple you’ve ever known.
In all probability, you and your wife ruined their one chance to consummate a love affair. Remember that time moves slower at that age - one month to her is a greater percentage of her life than one month of your life is to you. All your rules and passive-aggressive reasonableness is going to accomplish is to drive a wedge between you and her. No, she is NOT going to thank you for this in the future.
One other thing? This being a lesbian relationship makes it less, rather than more, likely to be strictly physical. I’m not claiming that the 17 year old girl would be less manipulative than a 17 year old boy (I’ve known too many 17 year old girls to think that) but taking testosterone out of the equation (IMO) increases the likelihood that this pairing is love rather than just sex. (It works against lesbian couples, who have sex less often than opposite sex or gay men - see “Lesbian Bed Death”)
Tough question. We have discussions with our kids about dating, sex etc. (Dweezil is 17, Moon Unit is 14.5).
Dweezil is, we’re pretty sure, straight (it’s an academic issue however as he has not EVER expressed an interest in dating; folks may recall that he has a mild form of autism).
Moon Unit has in the past suggested that she might be “playing for the other team”, which we took in stride with our usual response “doesn’t matter girl or boy, you’re STILL not allowed to date until you’re 30”. Which she knows is a joke, obviously. And in recent months she’s backed off of “like girls” to talking about boys. As with her brother, it’s largely academic due to her own social impairment. Basically she’s here, or at school, or out with one of us parents.
What we have specifically discussed however is that as a teenager, there are a lot of risks to fooling around, and that in our opinion there are no good reasons for a high schooler to be having sex. There are plenty of urges - and boys who will pressure you and “you would if you loved me” kind of stuff, but that the very real physical risks of pregnancy and/or disease are very much there, and that a teenager is in no way ready to handle any of those consequences.
I’d probably take the same stand if she were trying to get physically involved with a girl. Yeah, the physical risks are less but the emotional ones are not.
But - the bottom line is: 1) she made a promise. 2) I seriously doubt that the girlfriend’s parents had an expectation of this behavior or they would not have granted permission for the visit. 3) your house, your rules. 4) you explained those rules and she made a promise to abide by them.
A quick addendum to what I wrote above: I wrote it without having read the entire thread - deliberately so, so I could frame my own thoughts without being influenced by others’. I see a lot has already been addressed including the other girl’s parents being aware of her orientation (I had been thinking it was another 15-year-old).
Oh, we’re definitely encouraging her education on the subject, both in discussions with us and at school (her school fortunately has an excellent sex ed program). And, ultimately, that’s what this entire discussion is about–educating her on some of the risks that she hasn’t considered up to this point.
Huh. I would have said that her showing the courage to break this unjust & oppressive rule is a sign of great maturity & spirit.
Most of the progress in human society has come from people who are brave enough to break rules. Looks like your daughter may be one of those future leaders Hooray!
When you break an unjust rule, you break it openly and without deception, and you accept the consequences. Furthermore, you oppose it before you get in trouble, not as an explanation after you are caught. Civil disobedience is not based on lies and deception. You need to have always have made it clear that you do not accept the rule, that you will not obey it, and that you will gladly accept whatever unjust punishment they have the balls to mete out.
And generally you try not to do things that you know will hurt people who love you, which means in this case not lying to your parents.
Possibly, but that’s certainly not the sense I got from spending time with them while the girlfriend was here. And I spent a lot of time with them, because I was the one who took them around to look at colleges. In my estimation, the relationship is serious, but I think they’re still in the stages of getting to know one another.
I’d be very, very surprised if, at the ages of 15 and 17, this was their “one chance to consummate a love affair.” Still, if that’s the case, and my wife and I ruined it, that would be sad. But if those same circumstances repeated themselves 100 times, we’d make the same decision every time. I don’t regret the decision to interrupt the tryst at all.
As I said earlier, this isn’t about regret or second-guessing. It’s about how to deal with things going forward. Specifically, it’s about how to make sure she appreciates the possible consequences of her actions.
This is the approach we’ve been taking, but so far my daughter doesn’t appear to fully appreciate the physical risks, and I know she’s given little to no thought to the emotional risks.
Unreasonable rules, arbitrarily applied to someone who is in a situation where they basically have no rights?
The demand that two people who love each other be in the same house after a long separation and be forbidden to be together is the very definition of “unreasonable”.
How were the parents “hurt”? I’m Not Dennis Bergkamp was freaked out by the fact that his “little girl” is growing up and becoming a sexual being, and in a move that would embarrassed King Canute, ordered that this not happen. But he and his wife were not “hurt” in any way that I can see.
If she thought the rule was unjust and oppressive, she had the opportunity to say so before she agreed to it. The fact that she chose instead to agree to it, then break it, does not, to me, show either maturity or courage. Your mileage obviously varies, and that’s fine.
I wasn’t particularly hurt, nor was I “freaked out.” I was merely surprised that my daughter chose to so blatantly disobey a rule to which she had voluntarily agreed after having recently expressed to us that she had no interest in sex. I’m disappointed in her choice, though, yes. And I can no longer trust her (for now) to keep her word, which may be problematic going forward. So there’s some minor damage to the relationship that will have be repaired over time. It happens.
Most of the gay women I’ve known have had to be dramatically more circumspect in their love lives than the straight women I’ve known. And honestly, how much of this were you not wanting to see?
This was their one chance to consummate this, probably their first, love affair. On the scale from “booty call” to “passionate love affair”, I think we can agree that it is likely to be towards the latter. You don’t travel a long distance and start planning your lives together for the former. You can’t have it both ways.
Sorry, but your question presupposes your actions being correct. I disagree, and so do a number of other people in this thread. The only outcome I can see with your current path is less respect from her for yourself and your rules.
They were hurt because they were deceived. She made a promise and then immediately broke it. They put a lot of trust in her, and did something really nice for her, and she repaid them by sneaking around and doing the exact thing she, hours earlier, looked them in the eye and said she would not do. Even among casual friends, even with small and meaningless promises, that hurts. Coming from a child who you’ve worked so hard to do the best by, it hurts even more.
Really wanting to be with someone, being in “love”, having limited chances to bang someone, etc. doesn’t automatically mean that it’s a good idea to have sex or that anyone owes it to you to make it easier for you to have sex. I, for example, am not going to lend my spare couch out to my friend who is having an affair, even if they are “really in love” and my house is the only place they can get it on.
True, my actions in the past aren’t up for debate. I happen to think they were correct, and, without knowing me and my family, there’s very little you or anyone else in this thread can say to make me think otherwise. At the time, the rule was appropriate in my view: the fact that she broke it shows that it was needed, and the fact that she had not at any point prior to breaking it given any consideration to the risks of sex, physical or otherwise, tells me she wasn’t ready at that particular moment.
She will undoubtedly be ready at some point in the future. And I’m doing the best I can to help her become ready (hence the thread). But she was not then. And probably still isn’t right now.
I’ve actually invited her to look at this thread. Oddly, she says she’s not interested. She thinks it would be “icky” to have this conversation with complete strangers. But she can have an account if she wants–I’ll mention it to her.
I’m familiar with both the play and the laws, thanks. I don’t see the relevance of the latter. We’re not accusing anybody of any criminal behavior, much less statutory rape. True, we’re a little uncomfortable with the age difference for these two particular ages, but that’s a separate issue.