Again, nonsense. There could be all sorts of reasons why one would prefer to give a cash gift instead.
Perhaps the recipient is more knowledgeable than the donor when it comes to automotive parts. Or perhaps the donor lives too far away, and doesn’t know of any auto parts vendors that will deliver. Or perhaps he just doesn’t have time to shop around. I know all sorts of people who can’t spare that sort of time, but who are willing to write a check for a noble cause.
It seems to me that you’re imposing unreasonable constraints on a donor who just wants to help.
Why is this so hard? You give him the transmission. Isn’t THAT what you want, him to have a new transmission or do you want his promise to buy one? A gift is unconditional…if you’re worried that he might spend the money on booze, then why give him the chance to do so? What’s to prevent him from selling the FiXED truck for booze? His promise? Have you been around many drunks? You don’t know him well enough to know what he’s going to do with what 2-3 grand…?
Your choice is simple, either trust him or not. If you trust him, you don’t need a promise, if you don’t; you need to decide if he needs a new transmission or a visit from social services.
I already cited several reasons why it might be impractical, inefficient or infeasible to simply give the person a transmission. You did not address those reasons; instead, you ignored them.
In logic, that is known as a false dilemma. Those are not the only two options available. Another is to trust the person up to a point. Yet another is to remind the person what his priorities should be, then to solicit a promise that he will abide by those priorities.
Incorrect. If you trust him completely and unconditionally, then you don’t need a promise. On the other hand, if you’re not certain that he can be trusted 100%, but recognize that he (and his family!) are in dire need, then a solemn promise may be in order.
Again, given a choice between soliciting a promise and running the reasonable risk that his family may starve, I would rather solicit a promise from this fellow. I don’t care if he perceives this as a great affront to his dignity. If he values the freedom to buy booze over the lives of his children, then that’s his failing, not mine.
What point? Hey let’s make as many scenario’s as we can…how about this? You call the local auto shop, mechanic, dealership, have the truck towed and repaired. Is that hard to do? It’s a freaking transmission, not the space shuttle. You do want him to have a new transmission, right? That is what you want, right? Oh, is that too hard, too inconvenient? You would rather, take a promise from a person who you don’t trust, than ensure that the money gets spent the way you want it to be spent.
No it’s more feasible to get a promise, have it broken; then be pissed off and the problem STILL exist. You either trust him or you don’t. You shouldn’t be giving sums of money to people you don’t trust…promises or not.
This isn’t that hard to do, I did it once. I was struck in the NYC, my car died in at the Amtrac station in Albany. I called the closest dealer, which was in Conn. They towed the car to the dealership and placed a new transmission in it AND brought it back to the station. It wasn’t that hard to do, but then again I wasn’t concerned with promises and deciding whether a person was worthy to my “gift”.
It’s clear we’re a different points here. So I’ll say this. If I, that’s me; believe that a person will spend the rent money on booze, instead of the rent; and I really want that money spent on the rent; I will contact the rental agency and pay it directly or I won’t give it at all and whatever happens, happens. Sometimes, people need to get tossed on the street; sometimes they just need someone to just make sure the rent gets paid.
I don’t believe in asking for promises from people who I know can’t or won’t keep them; all it does is create resentment. If I want to help you out, then I help you out…period. I know what I’m dealing with.
If I give a gift for a specific purposes, I make sure the money/gift gets used for that purpose; whatever that takes.
The problem I have holmes is that the question is far more general. You are setting up these situations where someone needs something vitally important versus being told to get something relatively frivolous, which while certainly a potential issue, seems a bit strawmanish. What if I don’t have any potentially serious monetary issues? Yes I have a decent sized credit card bill and student loan payments, but they are easily manageable. Do you still think it is OK for me to spend the money on what I want against the gift-givers wishes?
Sometimes, yes, for EXACTLY the reasons that I cited earlier. Of course, it’s much easier to address the points that I raised, rather than to address them.
Your problem is that you’re insisting that a donor can ALWAYS choose to give precisely what the recipient needs, in a manner that is both efficient and effective. ALWAYS. WITHOUT EXCEPTION. I see no reason to grant your claim.
Yes, it’s a gift. I don’t care what you do with it. I trust you. I trust that you know what’s best for you. I would love for you go on the trip; but not if you spend the whole trip thinking about losing the chance to be debt-free. Trust me, it’s a wonderful feeling and IMO the best gift I can give you. Now if you spend the money on crack, hookers and comics, well I know better next time; but that’s MY fault…clearly I don’t know you very well.
Even if you were rich, once I give you something it’s yours. That’s it.
Now, if I REALLY want to you go on the trip, then I remove the choice. I purchase the tickets, the plane, the hotel room and off you go. That’s no different than me making sure your rent’s paid or transmission’s fixed…that’s what I want to do for you and I don’t want you spend the money on anything else. That’s it. Now you either take it or not, but it’s DONE.
I don’t however tell you if you don’t promise to take the trip, pay your rent or fix your transmission, you can’t have the money…what’s the purpose of that? IF I want to help you do those things, then I just do it; I don’t ask you sign a pact. That’s what a gift is, unconditional.
You see my point? I either give you the choice to use the gift as YOU see fit or I don’t. If I tell you, you have to do it my way or you get no gift; then I not really giving you a gift; at least not one that’s unconditional.
** Your problem is that you’re insisting that a donor can ALWAYS choose to give precisely what the recipient needs, in a manner that is both efficient and effective. ALWAYS. WITHOUT EXCEPTION. I see no reason to grant your claim.**
I give you a painting. A fairly expensive painting by a well known artist. It is now your painting. Are you free to paint over the canvas? I suppose so, its your painting, but not if you ever expect me to give you another gift.
I have an old car. You need one. I give you the car, knowing you need it. You turn around and immediately sell the car. Hey, its your car, but will I ever give you another old car. Maybe you needed the money more than the car, in which case, why did I give you the car, perhaps I knew someone else that needed the car.
Grandma dies. You want her old china, valued by several family members. It goes to you. You let your kid practice skeet shooting with it. The family finds out. Do you think there are hard feelings? After all, it was now your china.
You are obligated to accept gifts. If you do not want the gift as presented, turn it down.
By the way, perhaps its strangely cultural of me, but ALL gifts come with strings. I hate giving gifts because of the obligation it puts on the receiver. And I hate getting gifts for much the same reason, the obligation it puts back on me. Significant money gifts have some of the worst strings.
Not explicitly. However, you also said that a donor should simply GIVE someone a transmission, if that is the need being addressed. The clear implication is that there are no circumstances wherein the donor lacks either the time or the expertise to locate such a device and have it delivered to the person in need.
In fact, when I pointed out that this solution is sometimes impractical, you responded by saying,
Again, the clear implication is that there are NO circumstances wherein some good samaritan cannot spare the time to locate a reputable auto shop, mechanic or dealership. It also implies that these well-intentioned donors MUST SURELY be knowledgeable enough to recognize a good deal under these circumstances.
So while you did not explicitly make the claim in question, it is clearly implicit in your responses. Heck, the fact that you keep ignoring these complicating issues (despite repeated attempts to bring them to your attention) suggests that you do not believe such circumstances can exist.
Well, in the honeymoon situation I think that saying “I would like to pay for you guys to have a nice honeymoon so that you can put your other $$ towards other things, $15,000 is my budget, please decide where you would like to go.” it totally reasonable and appropriate. The person isn’t offering cash, they’re offering a trip and allowing the giftees to choose the destination. This seems like a generous and nice thing to do.
OTOH, I regularly have relatives give me cash gifts for birthdays, x-mas, etc and none have ever put a limitation on what I could use it for. If I wanted to buy a text book, fine. If I wanted to pay a bill, fine. If I wanted to buy cheap beer and hookers, fine (although I’ve never actually tried this one).
However the situations are totally different. The first is like being offered a new sweater from your granny, and saying, “Can you just give me the $$ you were going to spend on the wool?” vs. granny saying here’s your birthday card with $10 - get yourself something nice, and spending the $$ on a phone bill or something.
If you give gifts because someone you know, and love needs something, that is really not the same sort of gift that you give when you want someone to know that you think of them, and love them. In the first case, you might well decide that cash is a good choice, since it is fungible, and can serve whatever need they find most pressing. In the second case, you certainly don’t want to give cash, since that says something that you don’t want to say. (I assume you don’t want to set a monetary value on your feelings for that person.) So, you give them a copy of “Dogs at Poker” printed on velvet, and in a gilt frame, because you want to have that particular moment happen, when they get that particular present. It is not about the money; it’s about your shared emotions.
You give your children gifts that you feel will encourage them to practice the types of habits and behaviors that you find laudable. That’s because you are a parent, and they are children, and you have a responsibility not to encourage them in behaviors that are unproductive or harmful. It’s not about your gifts; it’s about your responsibilities as a parent. Once your children are adults, if you continue to do this, you’re a meddling manipulator, and need to put a sock in it. You already blew it, parenting wise, and now comes the endless years of suffering and anguish over why they act that way. (Hint: You are an ass, and the nut don’t fall all that far from the tree.)
Tris
“Having children makes you no more a parent than having a piano makes you a pianist.” ~ Michael Levine ~
I realize that this is not a popular view, but I think it is in very poor taste to give gifts of substantial amounts of money. I’m talking about gift in terms of a token given to celebrate a particular event, or something similar.
If an event is worth commemorating with something of substantial value (more than hundreds of dollars, certainly), it is worth the giver spending the time to actually purchase the token that is intended to be given. If you want to buy someone a vacation, tell them: I want to send you to Bora Bora/Bismark, North Dakota for your honeymoon. Let me know when you want to go, and i’ll give you the tickets at your wedding. I think it is very unseemly, declasse, and ill-mannered to give someone a check and say, Hey, go buy yourself a vacation, sport! More than anything, a gift should represent the thought behind the well-wishes for the occasion, and money, being but a tool, does not speak well of any thoughtfulness.
If someone needs some cash to get out of a hole (for car repairs, etc), then it is fine to give money, without strings. If there is a fear that the money would go to buy drugs or something, then you show up and pay for the new transmission or whatever.
I fully realize that there are plenty of times when people are very happy to receive cash as a gift, like at a mafia wedding. But I will be the one at such a wedding with a toaster.
Bottom line: Cash is dirty. Don’t give it to anyone.
That’s actually why I think cash gifts come with specifications. A gift of $15,000 for a trip isn’t a gift of cash, its the gift of a trip - please make your own arrangments. If I give my kids $10,000 for a wedding gift, please put it aside for a downpayment on a house, I’m not giving them cash, I’m giving them money towards a downpayment.
And cash for getting out of a hole comes with the most strings. If I give my sister $500 for work on her car, she’d better well use it to work on the car. I sure don’t want to find out that she still has a broken car, but a Coach purse. Is the money legally hers to do with what she wants, yep. Am I ever giving her anything again? - she might get a Christmas card or handmedown clothes.
I sort of put limitations on cash or gift card gifts to my nieces and nephews all the time. See, I don’t know them and their activities well enough to know what they want and where to buy it. So I usually give either cash or gift cards for Target or Old Navy after they are about 10 or so. Some kids, no limitations. Two families, the kids get told “This is to buy something youwant.” Because one set of parents, when asked what the kids would like for Christmas, told me “pajamas”, and with the other family, when the kid got cash for his birthday, the mother said " Ooh, something for your college fund". And they were way too young for those to be the kids’ choices- a seventeen year old might want to put his birthday money away for college, but a seven year old certainly doesn’t.
See my post. I think if you are giving a trip, buy the trip.
In my opinion, giving someone cash and telling them that it is for one thing or another makes about as much sense as buying someone a sweater and telling them that they can only wear it in December, and if they want to wear it in November, well, they shouldn’t take the sweater because it is supposed to be only a Christmastime sweater, dammit. If you’re giving something for someone to enjoy, people should enjoy using the item as it exists in reality in order to get the most pleasure out of it.
And I fully agree with your last point about gifts that are necessary to help someone out being diverted to nonessential purposes. Such people are not friends, but hucksters.
I don’t know what world you are living in but this is not really a workable idea in most case in the world I live in. There are a bunch of decisions about a trip that have to be made by the people taking the trip. When can you take it? When is a good time for flights etc.
