Thai also adds a syllable to the end of a sentence to make it polite, but avoids OP’s problem: The ending syllable reflects the speaker’s gender, not that of the listener.
The ending syllable can also reflect the speaker’s attitude about the listener! And, since teenagers like to help language evolve, some new such syllables are coming into vogue. BTW, when you’re chatting with royalty something more ornate than a single syllable is called for, e.g. พระพุทธเจ้าข้า. (The final syllable here is not the usual ending syllable ค่ะ but an archaic word otherwise obsolescent in Central Thai. The word survives in Northern Thai; in fact it is the first sung syllable in this famous song.)
Many tens of millions of Americans, yes. I actually would have thought that a strong majority of adult Americans, regardless of region, used “sir” and “ma’am” at least occasionally in public settings.
For instance: around here, “sir” and “ma’am” are the default terms to get an unknown man or woman’s attention. Like if they missed their number being called at the deli counter or something. Totally appropriate and polite, no offense taken. Ever. Yes, I can mind-read and so determined the propriety of the terms
Even if I were on the U.S. Pacific Coast or in the Northeast, and ran across someone offended by “ma’am” … I would consider it a one-off and not at all indicative of everyone in that area.
Now this does vary considerably region to region, I believe.
Around here, “Mister/Miss First Name” is a term of respect and familiarity.
Both during my childhood/teen years and now, my parents friends are so addressed. As were the parents of MY friends after a few meetings. Same for the parents of girlfriends & boyfriends. Likewise, my kids’ friends today address me the same way.
It’s also commonly used by adults for one’s in-laws, and one’s spouses older relatives (aunts/uncles, grandparents, etc.). After growing up in this culture, I find addressing my wife’s parents and grandparents by their first names alone as overly familiar.
Ma’am and Miss are a strange case, because in my head I define the difference as unmarried vs married, but when I use the terms I rarely know if the person I’m addressing is married or not, so I tend to default to “miss” if they look under 30 and “ma’am” if they look over 30. This is not to be offensive, just playing the odds, but I can see how women could choose to get offended since I am admittedly visually assessing their age.
Now that I stop and think about it, “ma’am” really has nothing to do with being married, but since it is the alternative way to address a female stranger, and “miss” definitely implies singlehood, it kinda defaults to be linked to marital status.
The other weird one I’ve seen lately is “gentlewoman” and sometimes “gentlelady”. It seems like “lady” does not carry as much respect as the term “gentleman” so we are forced to make up those other cludgy terms?
Did you mean addressing teachers as “Miss First Name”?
This practice is nearly invariable locally for teachers up to 1st grade. I’m not sure why, but second grade is when “Miss Last Name” kicks in.
Note also that in these instances, marital status is ignored – it’s always pronounced “Miss So-and-So”. You’ll see both “Mrs.” and “Miss So-and-So” in written communications from the school, but always pronounce either as “Miss”.
This goes also for the family friends, parents of friends, in-laws, etc. I cited a few post up.
I do “Sir” and Ma’am" by reflex. I am not Southern - I got it from judo, where the instructor was “sensei”, or “sir/ma’am” depending on their sex. I also taught my kids to do it, when they were young. IME people were more likely to find it charming when they did it, but they are much cuter than I am. Going from more formal to less formal is always easier than vice versa.
I occasionally do Miss when addressing someone much younger than I am, but I am old so I can get away with it. Depending, of course, on the setting. “Ma’am” is the default in a business setting. “Are you done with the lat machine, miss?” works better at the gym.
They don’t react as if it were creepy. Mostly just as one of those things that clueless old codgers do, who aren’t any threat as well as not being of much interest.
I wonder if there is anything else I do that comes across as unnecessarily formal and stilted.
Throughout most of Virginia and the South Ma’am just means “woman who is older or who otherwise outranks me.” In Appalachian culture though, Ma’am and Lady are fraught words. Ma’am would be used only for the matriarch of a family, generally a very old person but occasionally a younger woman due to very sad circumstances. So never a particularly nice thing for a woman under 60 to hear.
And in Appalachia calling a woman a “Lady” or a group “Ladies” is akin to suggesting they are soft, spoiled, suburban types who cannot survive on their own. It’s not a sentiment likely to be appreciated. They may respond by demonstrating their survival skills on your skull.
I see it as the female equivalent of “sir.” I use it often and have never had anyone take umbrage. Some women are actually pleased by it, in my experience, because they seem to see it as a slightly old-fashioned, even quaint, term of respect that they don’t often hear.
Capt. Kathryn Janeway was referred to as “ma’am” by her junior officers with some regularity on ST:VGR, if memory serves.
Depends on the way it’s being said, the tone, but generally, no. There is a difference between saying it in a polite earnest tone and a surly belligerent one.
I have relatives in Singapore. If you are in a shop, and the shop assistant wants to help you, or someone wants to politely attract your attention, at a certain age it’s going to be “Auntie”. And yes, for women there is that day when people first start calling you “Auntie”…
For what it’s worth, I just received an email from LexisNexis (with whom I have an account) addressed “Dear Sir or Madam”
“Dear Sir or Madam” has been immortalized in The Beatles’ “Paperback Writer”: *“Dear Sir or Madam, will you read my book? It took me years to write, will you take a look?” *
I feel your pain and sympathize. I’m a male retired unemployment compensation appeals referee and hearing officer. For most of my referee life, when I asked the parties to introduce themselves, I would say something like “Sir (or Madam), would you please state your name for the record?”
You know where this is going. One day I absent-mindedly asked a burly, buzz-cut Home Depot manager wearing a bulky jacket, “Sir, etc.” Of course, the “sir” turned out to be a woman. She was actually polite about it, and dryly gave her name without objecting to the “sir”–probably because I wasn’t the first one to make the sexist assumption that she was male.
I wanted to crawl under the desk. Naturally, when I shared this faux pas with fellow referees, they all pointed out that I was an idiot for bothering with such courtesies at all. I didn’t totally abandon the practice, but was much more careful about throwing around presumptions about gender afterwards.
But I’m in the present-day minority who thinks that intent is all that matters. If someone uses “ma’am” in an obvious attempt to be polite and courteous, it shouldn’t trigger some self-righteous, supercilious, hostile response.
Speaking of “judges”, TV court judge Marilyn Milian is an annoying hypocrite on this very issue. If a litigant addresses her as “Ma’am”, she stops them with affected outrage-- only “Your Honor” or “Judge” is acceptable.
But she doesn’t mind referring to the litigants as “sweetheart”, “pal”, etc.: classic kiss-up, kick-down authoritarianism.
I agree with the commenter who sarcastically but accurately pointed out that these days, everything is potentially offensive. Ideological correctness has eroded common courtesy-- Bah! Humbug!
I forgot to add: In some areas, “Madam” is the female equivalent of “pimp.” So also likely to incite fury. Again, tends to follow along the Appalachian chain, and surprisingly (to some) far north.
My wife and I were at the credit union yesterday to update some personal info and the teller had our cards and called my wife Miss First Name and me Mister First Name. I wasn’t offended, it just sounded weird to me. My wife was slightly ticked by the Miss usage, but it’s better than Miss Last Name because she kept her maiden name which is long and Slovakian and nobody can pronounce it correctly.
Think on this: I was friends with my 9th grade music teacher for decades after Junior High. It just never seemed proper to call him First Name. Mister First Name would have been ridiculous. Mister Last Name was not necessary because the older we got, the closer our ages were. I just called him Heeeyyyyyy! good to see you, man!
I’m 36, and I have long preferred ma’am. I don’t get upset by an earnest “miss” from a retail worker just trying to navigate this subject. But as an attorney, I might have taken offense at Judge Dinsdale calling me ma’am in court. He acknowledges he generally addresses attorneys as “counsel,” meaning I would’ve heard him saying that to my male colleagues all day. And then, at the end of a long day, when he’s noticeably tired and probably irritated, I get "ma’am"ed? Yeah. I probably wouldn’t have talked back, but I wouldn’t have forgotten it either.
