Is Taylor Swift genuinely a toxic individual?

Cafe Society
1

Celeb gossip is stupid and childish, but I got into a debate with my friend:

• Hey said that TayTay wasn’t all that and felt that the amount of reportage was disproportionate to the actual level of talent and accomplishment. I agreed. (We both also agreed that she has some good songs. We’re not haters of her work per se.)

• I went on to theorize that she seems like someone who has Borderline Personality Disorder. She goes through men like socks whom she subsequently trashes in her songs, clearly has a narrative of victimhood in her songs as well, and she seems to have lots of fairly rancorous conflicts and rivalries (e.g., with Katy Perry).

• He took umbrage with my comment about her relationships, as though I had been slut-shaming her. I explained more carefully that it wasn’t the number per se, it was the nature of the relationships and breakups.

• I also said that this wasn’t just my opinion, that she has a pretty bad reputation in the media, and that, in my perception, this reputation was congruent with what facts I know. I admitted, however, that I was no TayTay expert.

• My friend cited times when he felt she was justified, as when she was mistreated by Kanye and her recent defense of herself in court. I agreed with him on both counts but said that her being right sometimes doesn’t negate the overall narrative.

• I told him I’d gather more evidence.

And so, I’m crowdsourcing this shit: What do you think and know about Taylor? Is her toxicity really just surface-level, some minor squabbles and relationship drama, or does she really have a darkside?

My impression of her is, as I said, she seems like someone with a personality disorder. For example, when she started dating poor Tom Hiddleston, it was obvy that it was going to last shorter than a mayfly’s birthday party.

But you tell me. I am going to show him this actual thread, so feel free to present whatever cites and reasoning you choose. Thanks!

2

Oh, and FWIW, when he said that I was being unfair to TayTay because she was a woman, I cited John Mayer as the same sort of thing in male form. A guy who just seems like a dick with real problems. (Yeah, I’ve seen his confession to ego addiction on YouTube. And people in comments were saying that, even in confession mode, he seemed to be suffering still from the same affliction. I agree: he can’t get over himself for stepping on himself.)

3

I know nothing other than that I object to the woman being called “TayTay” unless that’s something she’s asked people to do, that she seems to be on the money business-wise, that she cried when described being groped, and (according to Wikipedia) doesn’t seem to want to do sexy photo shoots.

This completely out of thin air, but let’s say that for whatever reason she doesn’t enjoy sexual activity. Maybe she wants to get married first. Maybe she was abused as a child. I don’t know and nor am I saying that this is the way it is. But, she’s a smart, confident woman and so she attracts many men who are very kind, intelligent, and handsome. It’s hard for either of them to resist being attracted to one another. But then, you’ve got to contend with the issue that, once things get intimate, she freezes and the situation becomes very uncomfortable. The relation quickly dies.

I wouldn’t call this insanity. Unfortunate, perhaps. But frankly it’s none of my business.

If you can link to something where she assaults Tim Burton, saying that it’s her life dream to wear latex on screen, then we can start considering the crazy angle. Up to that point, I don’t think that there’s much worth wondering why a beautiful amazon is running through men by the bucketful.

4

It’s a dumb media nickname.

So the notion that she doesn’t have sex with all of these guys is out of thin air? I’ve never heard that or thought that. I assume that anytime adults are dating for more than a week, they’re knocking boots.

It’s the drama factor. She seems also to want the relationships to be in the media. This seemed quite in evidence with Hiddleston, poor chap.

5

Swift stopped going to school at 16 and wasn’t terribly involved in it for a few years before that. She has basically been an aspiring pop star or a pop star since the onset of puberty. She’s never lived a normal life, isn’t educated, and really has nothing to talk or sing about EXCEPT relationships, which are understandably hard to maintain when you never had the chance to become a fully developed person.

6

Didn’t know that. Interesting. I had heard she came from a rich family that basically bankrolled her career, but didn’t know the age thing.

She does not come across as particularly smart in interviews.

7

I know as much about her as you do (i.e. not much), but to me she’s always come across as a savvy, talented woman who isn’t afraid to laugh at herself. I read the transcript of her groping trial, and the way she handled the defense attorney leads me to believe she’s smarter than you might think.

8

I don’t hold her dating a lot of guys against her but her seemingly using each and every guy and their failed relationship as song fodder feels a bit low class. Yes, I’d feel the same about a guy doing the same thing; no, I don’t think this excludes you from ever writing about a relationship just, you know, maybe not every single time.

She definitely came out looking shitty when she outright lied about Kanye’s song and her permission to use her in it and then got caught. Looks like a drama queen trying to get publicity by playing the victim and makes you wonder how often she pulls the same shit but no one recorded her doing it.

Not someone I’d want in my circle of friends, not that there’s any danger of that being a possibility.

9

I thought she did well in that too.

I guess I misspoke above. In interviews, she doesn’t seem real and she doesn’t seem connected to the real world. It’s like an android trying to convince others of its realness but failing. This failure I translate as being dumb in some sense inasmuch as a more clever person could pull it off.

I don’t get the impression that she’s low-IQ per se.

10

I feel relationship songs are a easy sell for a pop song. Frankly what’s wrong with another silly love song. Also I can easily make the argument that human relationship/interaction is one of the biggest driver in most people’s lives. Therefore a rich source of material.

And why would the OP assume if people dated for more than week, then they automatically have to have sex. And so what if she did? How old is she? How many women has Elvis slept with? At least she never dated a 14 year old.

11

Seems any time I see these pop stars that started young (Britney, Miley, Christina, Taylor, Bieber, etc) they all have a lot in common. They all seem at some point in their later teens to become socially stunted. Not having normal lives they don’t transform into adulthood like most of us. Suddenly they’re in their late 20s still acting like teenagers.
And while they all must have had some smidgen of talent to launch their careers I think once they attain the level of fame that they’re at they don’t have as much artistic input as they’d like you to think. Some may have some general ideas put into their songs in order to get writing credit but professional song writers are the ones writing and producing these hits, feeding them the proper dance moves, the proper fashions, etc.
Entertainment has been theiir life so it’s not surprising that a high GPA in high school much less any post high school education was ever important to them.

12

This comment inspired me to look that up, since I hadn’t heard about that (I’m 40, what can I say). If I’m understanding correctly, he unknowingly recorded her saying she didn’t mind him using a line like “I still think Taylor and I are going to have sex” in one of his raps. She tells him yes, she appreciates him asking. Then the album comes out, and the line has been changed to something like “Taylor and I are going to have sex because I made that bitch famous”.

I mean, I’d be pissed too. She didn’t sign off on being called a bitch, she claims he didn’t make her famous, and she didn’t know she was being recorded. Doesn’t really sound like a “drama queen” to me.

13

But Taylor Swift have written hit songs for other groups/people. You can’t argue she lacks ability/talent to write a catchy pop song.

ETA: For one of the pop song, it was under a pseudonym too.

14

I don’t know too much about TS. It I do read BuzzFeed and sometimes work gets boring so I will read some of their celeb gossip articles - 28% of which are about Taylor Swift.

Reading this article (link below) made me decide that she is just a drama queen and really enjoys being part of feuds. Otherwise she’d just be like “haha I am super rich and have millions of fans and everyone else can stfu.” But instead she writes a song about it or does some subtle clever dig in a video and it gets brought up again and everyone’s fans go at each other on Twitter and shit. I dunno, the article about her VMA drama exhausted me and that’s just a fraction of her career.

15

She does have a bit of sense of humor about her reputation for going through men and relationships like… well, like a crazy woman. See Blank Space and video - which was apparently done specifically to poke fun of that.

I’m not a huge fan, but she makes catchy songs and can laugh at herself.

16

Well, if you follow celebrity gossip even casually then you know the theory that none of her relationships with men are real and the rumor that Tom Hiddleston was the one who was using her for a boost and not the other way around.

17

She should have claimed he was referring to Taylor Hanson.

18

My basic take is that she’s a drama queen…

…because it helps her brand. She gets into feuds intentionally. She sings about crappy relationships because the gossip sells her stuff. It’s what her core audience–tween and teen girls–wants.

My other take is that, while she got to be a bit talented when she was still country (though she started out pretty bad), she’s never been all that good an actual singer, and is far worse now. She got her break due to daddy’s money. She maybe writes decent music–for her audience–but she’s not a good singer.

And, yes, there are rumors to her songs being fictional or even written by someone else. And, yes, she was right to go against that guy for groping her, but she also only did it because he sued her for firing him, so I’m not sure how great that is.

And, finally, she looks better with a bit of a tan and light brown hair. Even if it does make her look like she’s from another decade (80s? 90s?)

19

Her original complaint was that Kanye never asked her permission or talked to her about the song except to ask her to promote it on Twitter. That was a lie. She also claimed that she warned him about releasing the song because of its “strong misogynistic message” which was also a lie since she was laughing about it during the call and how funny it’d be to see the media get upset. “Yeah, but he never told me he’s say ‘bitch’” was pretty much a complaint of last resort.

I don’t think all the “You did me wrong, what a jerk” stuff qualifies as a McCartney-esque “silly love song” :wink:

20

I was replying to a conjecture that Taylor’s relationships were a failure because she wasn’t putting out.

I don’t care if Taylor had sex with a bunch of people. My concern (as slight as it actually is) is whether Taylor is going through guys in a toxic, manipulative way. If you know how Borderlines operate, you’ll know what I mean.

But TIL that there is a theory that all these guys are actually beards for her of some type. I’m confused at this point, I guess.