Wish I’d said that, Excalibre. I’ve had to bite my tongue, lest I risk admonishment for pitting nyctea scandiaca in the wrong forum. Seriously, woman, get over yourself.
This is another thing. Women *constantly * want their men to change. There are many exceptions, of course, but what I see mostly is this :
Men get into a relationship and want the woman to stay the way she was when they met.
Women get into a relationship thinking they can change him.
Both mindsets are not entirely healthy, but I’ve noticed more men, on average, that can deal with changes in their mates. Women want change and don’t like the status quo, but they keep their mouths shut until they’ve got the guy roped in. Ths is why women date “bad guys” - thinking they can fix him, somehow. This is why women get involved with possible fence-sitters - “I can turn him straight.”
Stop it! Stop asking your guy to give up his comic books/video games/smoking/model car collection/old habits. It is right and proper for him to *limit * those things so he has more time for you (but that means you limit your things, too). But you can’t change another person unless they already want to change, and all it does is foster resentment.
No, in fact just the opposite. If I am just casualy seeing someone, I can accept a certain amount of self-destructive behavior, but when you truely care for someone, you can’t- and you shouldn’t. It’s not like dating a mouthbreather for example- if you can’t stand mouthbreathers, don’t date one, or if you do- then live with it. But you can like a guy who rides motorcycles too fast and without proper gear- but still later want him to change because now you really care.
I will give one suggestion to our OP- get him some of the Nicorette gum, and some Wrigleys Double-mint (that particular gums helps a lot).
Sorry Excalibre- but since you are a smoker, you can’t know just how bad you do reek. To be fair, those who over-apply cheap cologne likely are unaware of it also. But damn, man, it’s a horrid smell. It’s especially bad if you have a jacket or soemthing you don;t wash that often, and the smoke reek is embedded in every fiber. The smell from such a smoker’s jacket can make me sick from two buss/train seats away. But as a smoker, you really can’t smell it. Trust me, dude- if/when you become a non-smoker, you’ll see (or better smell) for yourself how bad it is. In fact, I have known ex-smokers that had to get rid of half their wardrobe and a couch, the smell was so bad. Have you ever had a smelly old bum sit next to you- one how had peed in his pants, spilled cheap beer, and not washed in a week? And you thought terrible thoughts about him, and how nasty he was to make others subject to his stench? That’s exactly how a heavy smoker with smoke-ridden clothes smells to us non-smokers. That strong and that bad. I kid you not.
And, I will point out that some smokers- when attracted to a non-smoker- will try and disquise how much they really smoke (dry clean all their clothes, use mints, moutwash, shampoo often, etc), and even cut back. Later, when they stop taking all the precautions or start smoking heavily again, it can get nasty.
Yesbut- a man *will * want a woman to stay the same- even to her figure and sex drive after child-birth.
I agree a woman shouldn’t want to have her man change a LOT- but there are exceptions: clothing/haircut/style- if you tell him how you like him to look, and help him buy- and buy for him- the clothes you’d like to see him in- many dudes will go along with that, no problem- within reason. His cologne is another thing you can change, buy him one you like, have him wear it and then say how sexy it makes him, he’ll wear it forever then. But, if he’s a slob around the house, he’s a slob around the house, and if he loves you, he’ll compromise a little, but never completely change.
However, look at this list:
comic books
video games
smoking
model car collection
Three somewhat childlike hobbies, basicly harmless- and one nasty addiction that will kill him. Not even close. Yes, if you love your partner- get them to stop smoking.
Double-Mint? . . . right . . . Hey, you know what else would probably help? Yogurt with active cultures.
Wrong again, bucko. I didn’t start smoking until a couple years ago. I remember being a nonsmoker, and I remember what smokers smelled like. Heck, I even remember being twelve and inclined to self-righteously lecture people about their personal habits. Thank God I grew out of that.
Like I said, I remember being a non-smoker. I didn’t start until I was 19. And nope, that never happened to me. I had a number of friends who smoked before I started. I didn’t find it pleasant to be in a car with someone who was smoking. And the smell of stale cigarette smoke in an enclosed space is not a pleasant one.
But since you’re arguing with me, will you please answer the question that nyctea has been so carefully avoiding? How is it that someone suddenly finds themself in a relationship with someone whose odor makes them want to vomit? Under what circumstances could that just happen? Did the OP get really drunk one night, and groggily wake up six months later to find herself in a committed relationship? “Damn, I have the worst hangover in the world. Wait, who are you?” “I’m your fiancé, don’t you remember?”
You seem awfully confident in what your saying for someone who’s clearly talking out of his ass.
You don’t do your cause any credit when you make things up that are obviously not true, and not even plausible. I remember what cigarette smoke smelled like before I smoked. And you’re being absolutely ridiculous here. Your points would be a lot more valid if you weren’t noisily asserting something that is absolutely plainly untrue. People are surprised when they learn I smoke; I apparently don’t leave a trail of poor vomiting non-smokers in my wake, because the nonsmokers I know largely don’t know I smoke.
You’re not doing your side any favors by arguing here, DrDeth. Stop making shit up. Stop exaggerating. Nicotine improves cognitive functioning according to research, so you’re not likely to put one over on us. Especially not this ludicrous bullshit.
:rolleyes: Nicotine users are drug addicts, so anything they say to justify their addiction is suspect. You are in deep denial, aren’t you? 
I know, I know. When science disagrees with you, it’s because science is wrong. I learned that from the Christian Right!
Can’t address any of the points I made, I see. I’m going to continue trying to assume that folks like you and nyctea don’t represent non-smokers as a whole, but damn, you guys are self-righteous and you don’t place much value on actual facts, do you?
This is what gets me. There are many valid arguments to be made on behalf of not smoking; it wouldn’t move me to quit, but at least intelligent dialogue could take place. Then hysterical harpies come along with brilliant offerings like “if you loved your man, you’d quit” and the urbane “you’re stinky”. I’m just about the only person in my circle that smokes and not one of my friends or family says stupid shit like this. Smoking is my choice, and apparently they value me and what I contribute to their lives over whatever possible assualt to their deilcate senses I might inflict.
Dude- you are a drug addict. Drug addicts are almost always in deep denial, and will *make shit up * about any supposed benefits of their drug of choice. In fact, there is no real scientific evidence that nicotine “improves cognitive functioning” in the general population, although there is *some limited * evidence it might help with Alzhiemers : http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a5_096.html
but as the Master speaks "Some of the research is contradictory. At least one scientist thinks smokers are less likely to develop Alzheimer’s mainly because they die of smoking-related diseases first. Smoking isn’t like low-to-moderate alcohol use, which is probably harmless and may even be beneficial. Although the data is unclear, many believe the relationship between smoking and disease is linear: the more you smoke, the greater your risk–but any smoking presents some risk. Right now the only known benefit of smoking is a societal one: if the heavy smokers die young, they won’t deplete the retirement funds for everybody else.
Or perhaps this:http://www.yale.ws/opa/newsr/02-01-07-02.all.html
"The researchers found that cigarette smoking improves a type of cognitive function called visuospatial working memory (VSWM) in patients with schizophrenia, but that smoking had no beneficial effects, or even negative effects, on this form of cognitive function in healthy subjects without schizophrenia. " So, unless you have schizophrenia, it’s doubtful that nicotine can help you at all, and no one *at all * doubts that it hurts FAR more than it helps. And, even if nicotine had some tiny beneficial side effect, Smoking kills people, and smoke kills brain cells, so no one suggest cigs are the way to get it.
Now are you going to tout Cocaine as a weight-loss tool? :rolleyes:
Good point, BadBadger. Just to expand on “feed those happy thoughts”; many of you focus on the negative behavior with negative responses such as “leave him”, nagging, etc…why not reward the person with “positive reinforcement” when he gets through one hour, one day, one week, one month, etc. without smoking. Make the rewards worthwhile to him that you wouldn’t mind doing for him. But whatever you do in your current relationship, make sure that this is truly a reward above and beyond the normal circumstances. If you already have a sexual relationship, then don’t withhold sex and then offer it as a reward if he stops…that is not positive reinforcement. Doing something “extra” above and beyond (that you are willing to do) is a reward…and let him know WHY you are doing this reward (ex: “Because I noticed that you didn’t smoke today, I am very appreciative of your effort to quit smoking, and your clean smell compels me to do x,y and z”). Of course it doesn’t have to be sexual in nature, it could be anything else that he might enjoy. True, you are manipulating him still, but in a positive manner, not a negative one, therefore he will not resent you for doing it. If he really likes the extra (reward) attention, he will start making an effort to curtail and even quit the behavior. Remember to smart small on the rewards and graduate them for the longer periods that he stops smoking. Use your imagination and good luck.
If you’re casually dating someone with habits you don’t like you’re still aware of them. You have known from day 1 what the person’s interests and personality are. Expecting someone to change just because you care about them more than you used to is ridiculous. When you find yourself really caring about someone with habits you don’t like, the question becomes “can I accept this about him/her,” not “how soon can I get him/her to change to suit me.” Whether you consider the behaviour to be self-destructive or not is beside the point: you’re either dating an adult who can make their own decisions about their health and safety, or you’re dating someone who you think still needs a mommy/daddy.
Also, there is a world of difference between wanting someone to change and expecting them to change … and pressuring/nagging them to change. Of course you can care, and can express your concerns, but the idea of thinking that you have some sort of right to expect another adult to change behaviour that you knew about all along is just silly.
There are tactful and non-tactful ways to tell the truth, though. “I don’t like the smell of cigarette smoke” is much more tactful than “The smell of cigarette smoke makes me want to vomit”.
What about me? I’m not a smoker. Haven’t been for two years. I don’t think smokers reek.
What about me? I’m not a smoker. Haven’t been for two years. I don’t think smokers reek.
What about me? I’m not a smoker. Haven’t been for two years. I don’t think smokers reek.
What about me? I’m not a smoker. Haven’t been for two years. I don’t think smokers reek.
In short, you might want to examine your sanctimonious broad brush and keep it applied where is applies: at you. And perhaps the OP. And take nyctea scandiaca with you. You know, the people who shouldn’t be dating smokers.
But please don’t speak for this non-smoker, mmm’kay?
I don’t smoke anymore, but those “you’re stinky!” arguments from avid non-smokers drove me nuts when I did, and they still do. I was never a heavy smoker and every time I smoked in front of someone for the first time they were shocked that I smoked. They didn’t know. And these people were around me all the time. If I truly smelled that bad, you’d think one of them would have suspected I was a smoker and not seemed so shocked when they saw me actually smoking.
I dated a guy who was a heavy smoker at a time I wasn’t smoking. I did notice the smell and at times it would be overpowering. However, it was usually only when he’d just had a cigarette and the smell would go away after about 20 minutes or so (which would explain why nobody suspected I smoked).
These are the experiences that make me roll my eyes whenever I see anyone go on a self-righteous tangent about how unbearably awful smokers smell, all the time and hear stories about people throwing out half their wardrobes. I never once, as a non-smoker, was able to smell cigarette smoke on a freshly laundered piece of clothing. At best, these stories are extreme exaggerations. At worst, they’re outright lies.
Is it possibly Excalibre still doesn’t realize he’s not in the Pit after being warned?
Well, some dudes don’t think that the dude/dudette with a pint of cheap cologne “reeks” either- but most people do. And the majority of non-smokers think that heavy smokers “reek”. “mmm’kay”?
How is what Excalibre posted any worse than what nyctea scandiaca posted? Has he directly insulted someone once in this thread, except for the dig at tsarina’s personality vs. head-giving ability? And I have seen way worse digs even in IMHO that were not greeted with a smackdown.
Umm, Dude? here’s what I said: " It’s especially bad if you have a jacket or something you don’t wash that often, and the smoke reek is embedded in every fiber. " I wasn’t talking about “freshly laundered clothing” I was talking about UNwashed clothing, and it’s especially bad in jackets.
"Spare me your histrionics. …And see a psychiatrist, because there’s something very seriously wrong with you" “You seem awfully confident in what your saying for someone who’s clearly talking out of his ass.” “damn, you guys are self-righteous and you don’t place much value on actual facts, do you?”
Hell, I’m not a Mod, but you asked. 
OK, I missed that one. Still, I’ve seen worse things in IMHO before and nyctea IS being self-righteous. Nobody’s really denying that one.
(Hey, isn’t nyctea the same person who said that a woman who was complaining about her baby should have gotten an abortion instead, because she had one and it was the best thing ever for her? I think she is.)