Yup. I don’t have the previously mentioned discussion about where to eat because I don’t play that game - I figure an adult can say where they want to eat, and if they say they don’t care, then I’ll believe that, too, and we’ll go to the place I want to go. If we both want to go to different places, then we negotiate on it.
I don’t think it’s selfish to want to have specific retirement plans. But by didn’t plan for retirement, you mean she didn’t think about what she wanted to do or didn’t plan to have the money to do what she wanted?
Reading this makes me feel very sad for you, HoneyBadgerDC. I hate it when I see someone, male or female, trying to change a partner who has always been clear about who they are, as you apparently have been with your SO. I know it sounds trite, but do you think counseling might help? Counseling doesn’t have to be about digging though all the terrible things your parents did to you, but just about learning to communicate more effective with one another. I’m sure you know this, I’m just repeating the argument that I made (unsuccessfully, I might add) to my now ex-husband.
I don’t think you were being a dick to ask to eat out of the cooler part of the trip, but her reluctance to voice any preferences during the shopping trip should have been a warning sign to you.
Is she resentful when you take your “me” trips? If so, you might have a bigger problem on your hands. If not, then take your solo trips and enjoy yourself. I’m wishing you the best.
I love the idea of camping. Stars at 7,000 feet with no light pollution, clean air, campfires, night noises, mosquitoes, coffee out of a French press first thing in the morning…Love it. I go camping with the wife & kids at least once a year, even abuse some fishing tackle with the kids. Know what? The only thing I hate worse than fishing is F&@^ing camping. And for all the sunshine, frugality, and whatever else is appealing about them, I hate picnics, too.
I simply don’t like the sort of unpredictability that comes with primitive. I still go and put on a happy face because the wife & kids love it, but I really do just “put up with it.” Doesn’t make me a dick for tagging along, and it doesn’t make them any worse for allowing me make that choice. It’s just a thing, and every now and then I get what I want.
Just read this and have to admit that I agree completely. She’s taking advantage of your generous nature. If you’re both retirement age, she’s a grown-up and needs to start acting like one, which means taking responsibility for her choices (or lack thereof).
From what is written above, it looks to me, the untrained observer, that you are dictating terms and she is just rolling with it so as not to rock the boat. Maybe you aren’t getting buy-in from all parties, if you know what I mean.
Here’s how I* would play it:
I’d say, “Dude. Last trip, the picnic-style food plan thing didn’t exactly work out. How should we do it this time?”
Maybe she’ll say she hates picnics because of a childhood incident, or that she doesn’t know what she wants to eat until she’s hungry, or a thousand different things. Who knows? Maybe she’ll say “I thought how we did it last time was fine.” To that, I’d say “Ok. Try not to suck at it this time.” and I’d call it a day.
*Keep in mind that I am pretty direct. Not everyone is equipped to handle direct.
Since YOU want her to come along on some of your trips, why not compromise on the eating thing. Yeah, you could go alone and do it your way and be perfectly RIGHT. But if you want her company and if she wants to eat in restaurants, then maybe the price of her company is that you give in on the eating out of the cooler thing. After 18 years… you must enjoy being with her so… one of you has to give more than she wants to. And since you’re posting here, it’s you.
If she were posting and saying, “HB wants to eat crappy stuff out of the cooler but to me, traveling means pampering myself and trying new food, so why would I want to eat the same stuff that I’d pack in a lunch from home,” then we’d be saying, “But after 18 years, you know HB, and so if you want to ‘tag along’ on these trips, YOU need to give in more than you want to and not be a PITA.”
The advice works both ways. There’s no point in standing on right and wrong here.
I responded before I finished the entire thread! Sorry about that. I think you hit it on the head right here:
Maybe her worry and concern about doing the right thing is because she’s not, uh, properly attuned to how you react to things. (Or maybe you overreact to things you don’t like? This will take some introspection.)
An example, when I get frustrated I tend to get more animated and speak with more volume. (Because, you know, my ideas will sink in better if I am LOUDER.) My wife, because of her childhood, would start to edge into panic mode because she thought I was raising my voice in anger, and then simple arguments would spiral wildly out of control. (I’m actually completely the opposite. When I’m angry I clam up, because I don’t want to say anything I’ll regret later.) It took a lot of talks and communicating to hash that out. It still happens occasionally, where a disagreement over cereal box placement turns explosive, but those incidents are few and far between.
When my first marriage failed I did a lot of soul searching, and discovered a lot of things I could have done better. I think, every day, you have to work on making sure everyone is on the same page.
You hit it pretty close, I know if I am in the cabinet looking for peanut butter and we are out I might close the door a bit louder than normal. If I do that she thinks I am blaming her for the peanut butter being out of stock. I shop and we have a list we both use when we run low. I never blame her for something I didn’t put on the list but she feels responsible for everything. I am trying to learn to be softer but it kind of goes against my personality to be too soft.
So, at least one honey badger DOES care!
For some reason this reminded me of the scene from the (under-appreciated?) Hurlyburly film in which the Sean Penn character won’t take Yes for an answer.
Restaurants are very expensive. I try and avoid them where possible. High carbohydrate foods are the cheapest way to eat. You could try starting her off in the morning with a big bowl of cereal, then by lunch time she might not even be hungry ! Cereal is also very cheap for a large box of it.
If I read correctly, HB is doing fine on the compromise thing. It’s is HB’s SO that is screwing everything up. As I read it, if she had responded truthfully, either way, HB could have/will accommodate her. HB just wants a straight answer.
Don’t go with her, go there and stick your hands in your pockets. If she sees something she likes, she takes it. If she doesn’t, you guys eat in restaurants.
Does she understand that her feeling responsible for everything is actually part of the problem? I say this because I am somewhat the same way and it took me a long time to see that this position is really just a power grab in a very passive aggressive way and lends itself to a lot of relationship problems. You seem pretty self-aware; is she? If not maybe she could benefit from some conversations with a neutral party (i.e. counseling)? It helped me a great deal. I think that is a better road to take than your trying to do all the changing.
I wanna believe the OP, but then I see how many times he’s dodged the questions resembling, ‘would you be okay with that?’, in regards to her speaking up to say she’d rather eat in restaurants because…X, Y, or Z.
Then OP says he’s trying to learn to be softer, but it’s goes against his personality type, and admits possibly shutting the cupboard door more loudly if he’s out of Peanut Butter, say.
Add in that he started the OP because he thought he might be being a jerk and, well, I just get the sensation that we’re only hearing one side of the story. And that perhaps it’s not entirely the full picture we’re getting.
I am sure thier are two sides to this story as with any other story. I didn’t mean to dodge any questions. As far as why she wants to eat in restauraunts, I have to assume it is because she prefers the food in restaurants.
I don’t honestly believe thier is a solution to the food issue, I think the real question actually deals with how much should I change my plans to accomadate the relationship. She has had long term issues with alcoholism and at present with the help of antidepressants seems to be managing it somewhat. This is why she has no retirement or income at this stage of her life. We get along great, exceptionally well around the house and even when we travel for that matter. But, I find myself getting more and more resentful over how much I have had to compromise on things I spent many years working towards. I doubt I have 7 or 8 years if I am lucky to really pursue these things at the level I want to pursue them. I guess maybe I am just looking for some validation in becomming a little more selfish about my own interests and goals.
I really don’t think she is passive aggressive, she is very sweet natured. She is a bit anti social even though she does extremely well when we are in groups or meeting new people. She just seems to prefer her and I and no outsiders. I am the opposite. I think she is happiest when we just stay close to home and keep life extremely simple.
Okay, how about rephrasing your OP using this as your theme?
It’s quite helpful that you figured out what you really want to know. Are you also maybe looking for permission to back out of the relationship a little bit? Maybe you think you’ve been carrying your partner more than you want to go on doing (for the rest of your life)?
Also, for the sake of pronouns, are you male or female?
ETA: Passive-aggressive and sweet-natured aren’t mutually exclusive.
I don’t think you’re being a dick because you are asking for her feedback. But, I see some serious red flags here:
You’ve been together, on and off, for nearly 2 decades, and yet you still think and speak very much in terms of “mine” and “hers,” to the point where you envisioned your long-term future without her. Most long-term committed couples adopt the “we” mentality shortly after they start living together, wedding or not. You haven’t gotten there yet, and it’s been nearly 20 years. It’s ridiculous and petty to continue keeping score like that. Stop it already.
To put it in armchair psychologist-speak, you are using the fact that you’re not technically married as a means to keep yourself disconnected from her, not just financially and legally, but emotionally.
I honestly don’t think that your issues have anything to do with food either. I think it has to do with the fact that you are an extreme type A (plans are to be made months, years in advance, and followed!) and you cannot accept that she’s not. Most people rejoice at the fact that they have someone to share their life with. You seem more pissed than pleased. Why? Because she keeps ruining your well-laid and carefully crafted plans! You planned for just 1 person in retirement, and now you have two. NOT THE PLAN! You planned to eat 2 meals per day from the cooler, and she wouldn’t do it. NOT THE PLAN!
To your credit, you adjusted the plan instead of forcing your SO to go hungry. You threw the plan book away, let that 2.3 pounds of lunch meat spoil, and took your girlfriend out to a restaurant instead of letting her go hungry. Good for you! Now if you would only quit resenting the fact that she deviated from your itinerary, and learn from this, the experience can actually be beneficial. Because even though she didn’t express in words that she didn’t like your idea (send her here and we’ll work on that), she did VERY CLEARLY communicate to you that she doesn’t like to eat out of a cooler. Got it?
So now that you’re ready to go on another couple’s vacation, don’t even bring it up. Eating out is obviously important to her. Maybe it makes her feel special. Who knows? But it doesn’t matter. Respect her enough to leave Mr. Igloo in the garage…where it will remain until your next (solitary) camping/fishing trip.
P.S. So yes, my vote is to DEFINITELY plan some solitary trips. You love to camp and fish; she doesn’t. By all means, go without her!* Life IS too short to stop doing what you love. Being in a partnership doesn’t mean that we lose our individuality altogether. And ultimately, doing what we love to do makes us better, more fulfilled, happier partners.
*But don’t say, “Well, if you’d only PLANNED for your retirement, you could go off a trip of your choosing, too!” That would be dickish.