That didn’t end it – you missed the part where instead of just “thanks, I’m good, you needn’t” she “added” that she “felt smothered” and he was being “inherently sexist” and [!!] “wished he would change.”
Which of those little gems was necessary to state her “preference?”
That word ‘maybe’ that you used there? You don’t need it.
Not even a little bit.
you are right. she is wrong.
If he’s treating them differently simply because of their sex, then it’s pretty much by definition sexist. That’s what the word means. Walking women, and only women, to their cars isn’t necessarily being a mcp, but it is sexist.
And this is not “venturing out alone in an unfamiliar place.” This is walking to the end of the driveway in a quiet suburb where a family member has lived for years. In this particular woman’s case, it’s walking to the end of what was up until a couple months ago her own bleeding driveway. How is that helpful? I mean, what the hell is he supposedly helping her with, and how exactly is it emasculating to tell a guy that no, you’re pretty sure you can walk down your own driveway without fainting from exertion or being raped and murdered?
There is a totally unsubtle and massively important difference between walking a few blocks or waiting an unknown time for a cab in a place with a high crime rate or someplace that is large or simply unfamiliar, and walking 20 feet from the front door in a quiet, familiar area with a low crime rate. Offering escort to only women in either circumstance is equally sexist, as the odds of something happening are equally likely for men or women. But the former situation actual has some potential element of risk, so offering escort isn’t problematic–it’s just pragmatism. The latter situation, however, has no statistically significant risk from external factors; the only risk she’d be at would be due to her somehow not being able to manage some aspect of the task due to her having a vagina, and thus it becomes patronizing and paternalistic.
Huh? So if she doesn’t feel the need for someone to talk her to the car, she should just shut up and go along with it? If you were carrying a small box to the car and a friend asked if you needed help, you replied, “No, I’ve got it,” but they insisted and took it out of your hand and brought it to the car for you, would your friend be right to do so?
Good lord, there’s nothing I enjoy more than a “strong, independent woman” who spends her time worrying about how vulnerable she is, or whether she’s being an “emasculating bitch” and declares women who don’t to be “femi-nazies*”.
Skald, yeah, it’s sexist. It’s also well-intentioned, so you don’t need to feel bad about it, unless of course you insist that your good intentions trump her lack of interest in being “protected”, which would be really, really sexist. Don’t worry about it, just don’t offer again.
*Just incidentally, there’s no “e” on the end of “nazis”. Pretty sure you don’t need the hyphen, either. You also might want to look up “strong” and “independent” but kudos for spelling them correctly.
At the risk of splitting hairs here, it’s not whether the escortee has a vagina or not, it’s whether she has the muscle mass and the familiarity with violence to successfully confront aggression. Fewer women have these than men, although this is a week generalization*.
To your point about doing so in a safe circumstance, I guess it comes down to intent: If the intent is to demonstrate caring and consideration, I wouldn’t call it sexism. If the intent were to demonstrate how the escorter was such a manly man and that the little lady needed his studly protection, than yeah, it’s sexism, especially as there is no real threat.
*Case in point: there are some lady trainers at my gym whom I would ask to walk *me *(6’-250lbs) to my car, such are their athletic and martial arts skills.
As has been pointed out, it’s sexist if you wouldn’t do the same for a man; however, I also think that it’s unreasonable for your wife to get annoyed at you for doing it. As a female, I always appreciate courtesy, even if it’s just being extended because I’m female. Why look a gift horse in the mouth?
Ah, I just read the other posters as saying he was wrong as meaning she should have just let him do it no matter how she felt about it.
She was wrong for saying what she said, but not wrong for not wanting Skald (or anyone) to walk her to her car. As some others have pointed out, this seems less about sexism that it does about intimacy-ism. Maybe she just didn’t want to deal with what could have happened in that sort of intimate moment when she’s getting ready to get into the car?
Nah. She just shouldn’t have been so pissy about it.
If, by saying she wishes you would change, she means you would elminate behavior she finds somewhat smothering, then I would listen. Even if you ARE worried about her, if she thinks it is smothering, let it go, at least for now, while you guys continue to try to work on things.
If she means she wants you to eschew all chivalrous behavior because she feels it’s an affectation on your part and not sincere, I would also listen, and see if it describes you well. No one likes chivalrous behavior that’s done for show or to enhance a person’s sense of self-worth. I am not saying this is you, either. Just that I have run into the type in the past.
Honeslty, she could mean any one of a dozen things, so it seems to me to be a conversation opener, something for you guys to talk about in the context of changing your marriage.
I am still reminded of the way she courted you, and some other things in her past that may make her desire more to assert her own independence from things that simply seem like male dominance, even though they aren’t. Keep in mind that a lot of things that are virtuous can be twisted in abusive relationships to exert control over people. She may still be working on some of these issues and inadvertently projecting them onto everyone else, seeing them as smothering and sexist, when they really are virtuous.
Maybe it’s a generational thing, or a regional thing…I don’t know, but no male friend or family member of mine has ever offered to walk me to my car when they knew perfectly well that it was within the immediate area, such as the driveway. This has been true in all sorts of neighbourhoods, at all times of day and night. Not only would I decline the offer, but I would also feel that it was a little sexist and I’d wonder why the hell they thought I would need such “assistance”?
I don’t think I’d say anything to them, though, unless they asked me “why not?”. However, if it was a situation between me and an estranged husband, and if I wanted to work on the marriage, then perhaps I’d find a way to express that this was one aspect of the relationship that made me uncomfortable, and I wish it could change. Perhaps Skald’s wife didn’t choose the right moment or choice of words, but it is possible that in her mind she was offering up a relationship issue that she felt needed to be addressed? You and your family have always done something that she didn’t actually like; there aren’t many ways to say that to you without potentially hurting your feelings, but she felt it needed to be said.
From now on, don’t offer to walk your wife out to her car. If she’s parked far away and is worried about the walk, then she can ask for assistance if she feels she needs it.
You guys seem to be forgetting that “sexist” is now generally used like racist: not only are you treating the different sexes differently, but that you are doing so for a bad reason. It’s a fighting word.
In my experience, people don’t say exactly what they mean, especially when talking to someone they have negative feelings toward. I think the statement is closer to meaning something like “Previously, in our relationship, I didn’t feel like I had enough time to myself. And, since we’re going through this, I don’t think it would be appropriate for you to walk me to the car. Oh, and just because we sorta hung out together today doesn’t mean I’m not still mad.”
Emphasis mine. I do not agree with the posters that Wife was afraid Skald might try something of an “intimate” nature because of their present difficulty. Was she afraid the brother might hold her hand? Does she wish the brother should change, too? I think not. I do think she has her own issues and that it was unnecessary and hurtful for her to dump all over Skald, but that’s just MHO as I don’t know any of these people or their personal dynamics.
Maybe it is. My mother would have been HORRIFIED if the whole damn family didn’t escort visitors to their car (just in the driveway). We were taught that if someone had visited you OWED them the duty to go outside and wave goodbye.
Perhaps this form of “manners” evolved because there is never snow here. My best friend is Austrian and EVERY time she visits she says “don’t come outside” and gives me a goodbye hug. Everytime I follow her to her car and we hug again.
Male or female, solo or multiple if you visit I will come out and wave as you drive away because my mother said it’s just good manners!
It’s soooooooo hard to break those kind of ingrained rules and to be honest I don’t want to break that one. OK if you parked miles aways and it did happen to snow, well then I might change my my mind but if you are in the driveway or on the street I’m coming to the car with you I don’t care what sex you are.
Why aren’t you watching the male relatives? Do they all know kung fu or something?
If she asks you politely to stop, you should stop. I doubt she’s going to get mugged in your driveway.
That being said, she didn’t really ask you very politely. I would still take the high ground, though, and stop doing it.
We stand at the door and wave at people in my family, but if you started walking me to my car I’d think it was a bit weird, yes. I don’t think I’d say anything, just remember it and maybe find it a little bit creepy.
My parents escort everyone, regardless of gender, to their car. They always have; it’s “good manners”. My manners may have slipped a little - I’ll walk you to your car if I want to spend that extra bit of time with you (not in an intimacy sense, in an interesting conversation/not going to see you for a while/whatever sort of sense), or I’ll wave you off from the door if I don’t.
I don’t think it’s sexist to make allowances for the greater potential women have to be victims of certain crimes. That’s like saying it’s discriminatory on the grounds of height to offer to get something off a high shelf for a short person, or ageist to hold a child’s hand crossing the road. It’s a courtesy, as long as she has the option to say no. I think the way your wife told you no was insensitive and unkind, but you asked us not to comment on your wife and I respect your efforts (and hope they’ll work out for the best).
If you’re doing it because she has a vagina, then yes, it’s sexist. (That’s what sexism is, by its very definition: basing your treatment of someone on their perceived gender.) If you walk everybody else out, too, just to be polite, then it’s not sexist.
The most insidious kinds of sexism, IMO, are the ones that masquerade as politeness. Please only hold the door for me, pull my chair out, or offer me a hand down the stairs if you’d do the same were my genitals hanging around outside my body instead of tucked away inside.