Two points here: The vikings etc invaded - the population at the time didn’t really have a lot of say in the matter. No doubt they were less than thrilled.
Also the UK has very strong immigration policies on paper. However in reality we might as well not bother. It is a simple fact that if you can get here you are almost certainly going to be able to stay here.
What the immigration debate in the UK needs is a degree of honesty from all concerned and also to sop calling anyone with a worry about current levels and types of immigration a “racist” everytime they make their point. It really doesn’t help.
The country needs immigrants, it also should have some veto over exactly who those immigrants are.
FWIW I would immeditely deport all white South Africans who live near me as I can’t be doing with them at all - bvut they’ve all got British passports.
You’ve got to be fucking kidding me, mate. Ask me some time about how I was chucked out of your fair country after being resident for five years, in full-time employment, and while still married to a UK citizen.
Your culture is nothing at all like it was in the same place a hundred years ago. Cultures change constantly. Immigration ebbs and flows and is part of this change.
Terms like “majority white English” are standard BNP terms.
Why should someone’s skin colour come into it? My sister was born in Luton, and she’s black. How does this alter her culture? Sounds racist to me. Furthermore, what makes Angua any less English than you? She likes a pint, works, pays taxes. She’s Muslim, but what of it? Shouldn’t she have freedom of religion?
Nobody’s suggesting that. This, again, is very similar to BNP rhetoric, misrepresenting the views of those who oppose. You’re being all reasonable here, but every time Islam is mentioned, there’s a one-liner from Ryan_Liam slagging Islam off. Any wonder that one might get the impression you’re a BNP fuck?
Oh for fuck’s sake. Aren’t Muslims human beings? Or are we aliens?
The last few times I heard that same bolded phrase spouted was from the mouths of BNP members.
Ryan_Liam, that’s probably one of the most bigoted things I’ve heard anyone say.
You know, its probably a good job you’re not in the vicinity of me at the moment, because you really need bashing around the head with a great big stonking clue stick.
In general if you can get here and make an asylum claim you will eventually be given leave to remain here.
This really is the stupidest way of doing things imaginable - it keeeps people unproductive for years (or in the black economy - either way they’re not contributing as much as they could).
THis is where overheated arguments between the Daily Mail readers and the idiot fucking Guardianistas have got us - a system that is no good for anyone.
Yeah. You want to talk about terrorism? Let’s talk about straight terrorism.
Those straight people, man. All the time I hear about straight people murdering gay people. It happens constantly. Gay men dismembered and burned to death. Lesbians raped and murdered. Trans people left to die by paramedics after their cars crash. All it is is an attempt to make us fear them, quash our dissenting opinions, and not speak out against these acts of terror.
And you know, I never really hear straight people speak out against this terrorism. Oh, sure, some come into threads like this and say they’re against it, but if they really were against it, and the gay bashers really were a “lunatic fringe” of straight society, the “moderates” would isolate the gaybashing elements in their society and exclude them, cast them out, or murder them.
Because I know you know exactly who these people are before they kill a queer person, and socially shunning them will prevent them from murdering queer people, while on the other hand, murdering them in turn is an acceptable response to your intuitive knowledge that they might kill a queer person. I’m sure no judge would convict you if you explained you were trying to prevent gaybashing.
Honestly. Until straight people start seriously taking action to cast out gaybashers in their own ranks, I’m afraid I can’t take any of their so-called “denunciations” of gaybashing terrorism and “support” for Queer people seriously.
This post has been closed-captioned for the sarcasm impaired.
And let’s not even get into how they’re swamping our culture. It’s getting so you can’t turn around in the Village without seeing a straight person. I don’t mind letting in a few at a time into our neighbourhood, but I really don’t need to see straight couples in the restaurants and parks and the metro.
And they’re taking our jobs, too – I keep seeing these straight men working as florists, and baristas in trendy coffee shops, and straight women driving UPS trucks. Come on people! Wake up! If we keep letting straight people take our jobs, what’s going to become of our economy?
But I’m not heterophobic. Really! I even ate a chicken-fried steak one time.
I know you’re trying to be sarcastic, but in fact, everything you said is true. I don’t know what the political situation is for gay people in Canada (I hear it’s somewhat better than that in the U.S.), but everything you said could be equally applied in America. Maybe 5% of Americans are gay, another 20-30% advocate complete non-discrimination, then you start encountering cultural conservatives and fundamentalists, and Fred Phelps sits out at the other end of the spectrum. Being that this is still a democracy, that majority is able to deprive gay people of political rights. You think Westerners wouldn’t face a similar situation in a country that is 70-80% Islamic?
I guess by that argument, you think its OK that Muslims face that kind of situation in countries which are predominantly non-Muslim?
Oh, and with respect to your earlier post “Islam shows no signs of liberalisation” – really? Ask the Britdopers who know both myself and Bibliovore - they might change your mind…
Muslims who have chosen to move to europe obviously have made a decision that their prospects and life chances are improved in the move. They also know what they are getting themselves into.
The same would apply to a Brit who moved to an Islamic country. It would be ludicrous to move to Saudi Arabia and start moaning that they don’t have pubs.
However what most people are worried about is not a few muslims living quietly but an Islamisation of our western countries (which is not that likely IMHO). They look at Islamic countries and think that they don’t want to live like that - and let’s be honest I am sure that the average British muslim doesn’t want to live like that either.
Headcases like this geezer in Holland just reinforce this mindset.
Hyperelastic:Being that this is still a democracy, that majority is able to deprive gay people of political rights. You think Westerners wouldn’t face a similar situation in a country that is 70-80% Islamic?
In a country that is 70–80% antidemocratic, antisecular Muslim fundamentalists, sure. The point is, though, that Western countries aren’t even anywhere close to having majorities of Muslims of any kind, much less antisecular fundamentalists.
So your political rights are safe. There is no guarantee that the occasional Muslim fundamentalist nutjob won’t commit a vicious hate-crime murder like the one of Theo Van Gogh. However, there is also no guarantee that the occasional white European nutjob won’t commit a vicious hate-crime murder like the one of Pim Fortuyn. Those are some of the risks of life in the modern world, sadly.
To anybody seriously claiming that their culture or their political rights are in fact endangered by an emerging Muslim-fundamentalist majority in European countries: Let’s see some goddamned evidence to that effect, from demographics or immigration law. Enough of this unsubstantiated chatter about how “obvious” it is that “they” are taking over and our “values” are endangered, blah blah blah.
The fact that you now see more people wearing headscarves and selling falafel—even the fact that one vicious nutjob foully murders a filmmaker—does not constitute rational evidence that your Whole Way of Life ™ is under attack. Either supply such evidence or quit expecting other people to take your xenophobic anxieties seriously.
Exactly. However, I think the only way western countries would be Islamisised would be due to a large scale invasion. Like you say, headcases on both sides of the fence, reinforce these fears, but the majority of Muslims you’ll find living in the West are already quite liberal.
I’m probably being nitpicky here, but its the mindset of some Islamic rulers (who still think we live in the 13th Century) that needs to be changed. Islam, in itself, can be very liberal, and there are a lot of liberal Muslims. Again, an entire community is being tarred with the same brush because of the mindset of a few. Its like me saying that all Christians are militant pro-lifers who’d outlaw abortion in the blink of an eye, just because there are some Christians who would.
Wait a minute, Angua. Are you saying you’re Muslim? I kissed a MUSLIM??? On the mouth!? What the hell… At least we’re not the same sex…Uh-oh. A girl Muslim kissed a girl Christian…we’re in so much trouble.
Okay, sorry to derail this, but this is just stupid. Nice little black and white world you live in, Roseworm. Monstrosities come in all colors and religions and just because some people have decided that Muslims are the flavor of the year doesn’t make all of them evil. Not all Muslims are terrorists, and vice versa. And not all crimes committed by religious fanatics are acts of terror.
I would giggle at the thought of Doper guys forgetting interfaith animosity in order to focus on that image, except I still feel bad about poor Van Gogh and can’t giggle today. But thanks H and A, it’s still a good thought!