After checking the news on the net, it’s quite possible that this thread may be based on a lie anyway, and that there was no indiscriminate killing on the part of the Israeli army, after all.
Is it possible that Palestinian news sources might be little bit suspect?
Perhaps that’s because three times as many Palestinians have been killed as Israelis?
The reality is different: in France poeple know more about the middle-east, it is directly concerned with it’s huge muslim population. But France has also a huge jewish population.
I live, (not “lived”, since that doesn’t seem to count for you), in France. More precisely, I live in Villeurbanne which is the city with the highest number of jews in France.
I’ve seen pro-Palestinean-Anti-Isreal Jews rally against Israel in discussions in Villeurbanne’s Zola Cinema, after a movie about Palestine had been shown. That should compensate for the Austrian Nazi’s you were talking about.
That says it all.
On french television, Jews are not really treated, I hardly see any news about them.
However, Israel and it’s politics is treated. And it is not treated in the same way as I have seen it in the US: I.e., in Europe, when a suicide bomber blows up civilians, it is shown. When the Israels kill 10 children throwing a 1000kg bomb on a house, then it is also shown!!!
During my time in the US I’ve seen CNN, Fox News, MSNBC and ABC. But I couldn’t stand it. Then only journalist I ever found who asked some direct questions to politicians was Tom somebody on ABC, the other channels just suck, even CNN.
I was subscribed to TIME magazine for a year. I quit, it suck’s. Reading it I got the fealing that I had been subscribed to a propaganda magazine from the pentagon.
Actually, I’m calling myself on my facetious statement above, and calling bullshit on Jackmannii too.
I just re-examined that page, and here are the direct news stories specifically regarding violence from either side (disregarding general/political/historical articles):
Israeli violence
Israel hits Gaza hard
Eyewitness: Devastation in Gaza
Israelis live in fear of Hamas missiles
Palestinian violence
New front in conflict? [The targeting of Americans in Gaza is unusual and potentially ominous]
Gunmen kill three Israeli troops
Three Israeli generations torn apart
The rest is background/politics.
Close. The media in the United States is a series of allied large conservative corporations which hand pick possible leaders of the country.
So you aren’t seeing propaganda from the Pentagon, you are seeing propaganda from the people who have right of refusal on the people who control the Pentagon.
It’s a subtle difference - but an important one. It means that any time the Pentagon tries to act on its own without approval from Rupert Murdock - it gets roasted in the media, for example. It’s not that the media is automatically boosting anything the Pentagon does - it is that the Pentagon has a very difficult time doing anything the media has not already approved.
-Frank
Anyone else see this? I wonder if the official Palestinian description of what Israel is doing should be taken at face value.
Regards,
Shodan
Sorry, but mostly Jews are interested in anti-Semitism, so it’s hard to find sources you would even read – without labeling the writer and dismissing the article.
YES, you LIVE there! I get it. Now, try to think about how stupid that argument is. You reject out of hand any opinions that differ from the spoon fed opinions you get in your media, and are proud of it.
But, hey, France is waking up to the huge wave on anti-Semitism in their midst and is even trying to pass laws to deal with it, finally.
Ah, I’ve been away, back now and find I do not need to respond to Beagle’s latest rants as they have been roasted sufficiently by others. So I content myself with:
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Jackmannii
In other words, you’d rather not address this double standard. I quite understand your reluctance to do so.
Er, what double standard? I dissaprove of Israeli action in the occupied territories, I disapprove of Palestinian militant action in Israel proper, I disapprove of US action in Iraq, I disapprove of UK action in Iraq. I post my disapproval (and I write to my MP. the Foreign Minister and Tony Blair to express my contempt for their party/government policy). I point out we are in a thread about Israeli and Palestinian killing of innocents and that we should keep to the point. Your point?
**
No. I was suggesting you were wasting your time attempting to discuss supposed institution BBC anti-Israeli bias when the subject has been done to death in many other threads. If you wanted to find them I suggested December as a primary seach method. You can of course discuss whatever you like, I can trust to jjimm to produce the evidence of balance, just as he has done in numerous other threads
And my
**
was irony, not an attempted witticism. Irony, like silvery or goldery but made of Iron. There that was an attempted witticism.
I do not know what that had to do with my knowledge or otherwise of jouralistic standards.
**
You dope. No, in fact thanks! You have proved my point about preconceptions and prejudice nicely. I never said I was a Chomskyite (whatever that is :rolleyes:), I said I had once read one of his books and found his thesis both interesting and one that stood up to my own obsevations. In other words, I tested it.
My thesis was that Beagle would not read it as he had already made his mind up and was not open to new data. Perhaps I should add you, Jackmannii, to the list of the closed minded.
Who was it that said. “You should always read the writings of your enemies, so as to understand what they are planning.”?
BTW I was a Thatcherite, I am not longer, it is only your assumption that I would agree on Chomsky on other issues than bias in the media agenda, not simply the coverage.
Hey, fuck you not quitesmart. I responded to a one sentence diatribe from a noted Israel basher and all I’ve gotten from you fools is insults and derision.
Whoops! Sorry all for buggering up the quote/unquote and bold/unbold stuff. I have a Portuguese keyboard here without a square bracket and copy/cut/paste/edit is clearly subject to easy error. I hope you can see through to what I was attempting.
You must know it …
I did not realize this “huge wave of anti-semitism”. There was one incident a couple months ago, I think it was during the Iraq war. That was the only incident I can remember (Somebody sprayed something on a jewish cemetry) - and I guess it got exaggerated in the US media.
Anyway, it was treated was a lot of respect by the French politicians, even Chirac talked about.
Since then I have no knowledge of any other incident. There have been more incidents of other kind against other groups, e.g. arabs, but they don’t get as much attention, perhaps because they are not jewish.
The incidents you describe in your cite happen all the time against minorities, in Europe and in the US. I remember when the right-wing government came to power in Austria, it was not really a good thing to be an Austrian in the other countries in Europe. Taxi drivers wouldn’t take you, and people work on your car with screwdrivers and keys.
My wife is moroccan, and being an Arabe in Europe is not better than being a Jew. Au contraire! And don’t tell me that this is different in the US.
The only difference is, if your Jew you may cry “Antisemitism” and everybody is shocked.
Beagle I was referring to your 8.45 am post which I do not now think needs further comment from me. I was referring specifically your later contributions, especially if they take on an anti-semite. I am anti-zionist but certainly not an anti-semite.
But if your want an apology for my not being precise, and having offended you unknowingly, then you have one!
Beagle I was referring to your 8.45 am post which I do not now think needs further comment from me. I was not referring specifically to your later contributions, especially if they take on an anti-semite. I am anti-zionist but certainly not an anti-semite.
But if your want an apology for my not being precise, and having offended you unknowingly, then you have one!
I’m glad it was facetious. Quite a lot of people take comparative body counts seriously in choosing up sides.**
Your analysis is unconvincing, even with the artificial separation of “news” and “background/politics”.
For one thing, all but one of the BBC’s “top news stories” on that site deal with the latest Israeli attack and negative reaction, with just the solitary reference to the Palestinian attack that immediately preceded it.
The rest of the site is larded with headlines such as:
"Resigned Arafat awaits fate
Anger and pain in Nablus
Despair of Palestinian children
Divided lives
Palestinian views on Israel’s security fence
Palestinians languish in Israeli jails
Israel holds thousands of Palestinian prisoners whose treatment is a matter of human rights concern.
Settlement block on peace road
etc.
And when I get a chance to read the actual articles, I’m sure they’ll just be fair and balanced as the selection of topics was. :rolleyes:
At least you’re making an effort here, as opposed to notquitekarpov, who only ducks and evades with contributing anything of value. True, I didn’t expect much from him after that revelation about being an ex-Thatcherite. I’ve come to expect rigid preachy thinking from people who have vacillated wildly between extremes (including certain ex-smokers, reformed sinners and so on).
I’m glad it was facetious. Quite a lot of people take comparative body counts seriously in choosing up sides.**
Your analysis is unconvincing, even with the artificial separation of “news” and “background/politics”.
For one thing, all but one of the BBC’s “top news stories” on that site deal with the latest Israeli attack and negative reaction, with just the solitary reference to the Palestinian attack that immediately preceded it.
The rest of the site is larded with headlines such as:
"Resigned Arafat awaits fate
Anger and pain in Nablus
Despair of Palestinian children
Divided lives
Palestinian views on Israel’s security fence
Palestinians languish in Israeli jails
Israel holds thousands of Palestinian prisoners whose treatment is a matter of human rights concern.
Settlement block on peace road
etc.
And when I get a chance to read the actual articles, I’m sure they’ll be just as fair and balanced as the selection of topics was. :rolleyes:
At least you’re making an effort here, as opposed to notquitekarpov, who only ducks and evades with contributing anything of value. True, I didn’t expect much from him after that revelation about being an ex-Thatcherite. I’ve come to expect rigid preachy thinking from people who have vacillated wildly between extremes (including certain ex-smokers, reformed sinners and so on).
So what you are saying is you haven’t bothered to read them because you already know what they are going to say. Again, you are not open to debate because your views are fixed and inflexible. If you go looking only for bias that is exactly what you will find.
**
Yet another example. You do not take me to task on what I post here you just yet again assume because you know: :rolleyes: that I have arrived at another extremist position. On what exactly do you base this new insight now you have abandoned calling me a “Chomskyite” (whatever that was supposed to mean). I am showing the opposite of rigid thinking surely by openly inviting well supported arguments that might alter my current understanding. I’ve done it before. You cannot equate (well, you can but it is stupid) political views with things like smoking or sinning which are yes/no things. The whole point of politics is that it is the art of the possible as well as what you believe in.
Ducking? Evasion? Me? I think not.
Back to the OP anyone?
Wow! I’ve either been “whooooooshhhhhhhed”
or y’all are very seriously fuped duck.
Settle down damnit! you wear a hat and i’ll wear a cap and we’ll all die…
mmmmkay?
I haven’t got much cash… but you can both have $150.00 after that I’m gonna be in India with a bowl.
kill the thread… theyre too violent…please
[drowns] gurggle gurggle[/drown damnit]
Rice?
Please :begs:
Die thread! Die!
time for soup
care to expand upon your statement?
I’m a “noted Israel Basher”?
of course, If I call for a cite, you’ll ignore it.
I’m done with you.
You are correct, nqk, that should have been “ducks and evades without contributing anything of value”.
And unfortunately still true.
Well, if you are no longer going to contribute and you think I am “not contributing anything of value” then I guess this thread has run it’s course.
I’ll leave you to stew in your own prejudices and refusal to keep an open mind, address the points made and support your own.
I’m outta here.