Aro, apologies, I withdraw my remarks about the surveillance operation. I appear to be confusing the incident with something else, and I cannot find a reliable cite in relation to the soldiers being part of a surveillance team.
I can only state that their presence at the funeral was completely by accident.
I’m sorry for any misunderstanding in this, and apologies to flonks for the hijack.
All cool here. 
The main points stated were good ones though -
Twisty asked- “should Violence only beget Violence?”
Yojimbo stated - “Narrow minded aggressive acts very rarely help the situation.”
At some stage the cycle of violence has to be broken in order for progress to be made. Does anyone honestly think it will be broken solely by perpertrating further violent acts?
I would have loved to hear what this nutjob thought of IRA terrorist actions. I suspect his answer might have been different. But yes, I understand your frustration.
As for Israel, I’ve long given up hope that there’s any chance of peace as long as the Likut party is part of the governing coalition. This is not a dig at Jews, or even the state of Israel: peace was so much closer in 1995. And then, some idiot cut it all short.
I would love to see an alternate universe kind of thing where Rabin lived. Chances are we would have been a lot further. Surely, no sane person expects the same sort of commitment to peace from the likes of Bibi, or worse, Sharon.
I agree with most of what you said above (with some reservations), but, FTR, the only reason I don’t want to see Sharon out of office tomorrow is that we would then be landed with Bibi…
Sharon’s a real hard-liner, but he’s consistent, and even honest in a way. Bibi is - let’s just say, a lot worse IMO
Dan Abarbanel
It’s like I always say: never be too keen to get rid of someone you don’t like until you’re sure you’re going to like the next person more. It’s something the Tories ought to have learned by now…
The original OP appears to have been based on a falsehood.
I posted a link to an article that contradicted the theme of this thread. Hell, I even quoted an excessivley large chunk of the article to save people the trouble of clicking.
Shortly after, another poster provides a link to a different site which also contradicts the claims of the original OP.
Everyone totally ignored both links and the discussion went off into some completely unrelated tangent.
Why is this so?
Is there any point in providing a “Cite” in the first place, if no one is willing to find out that the link does not go to a picture of Bugs Bunny, for example?
I’m going to pretend like I haven’t already lost my mind trying to use logic. Well, no, that’ll be tough. Sure, I was rude but all I did was make the opposite of the argument I hear all the time, predict everyone would go crazy and get defensive, and watched it happen. See, if our media is controlled by some Zionist lobby or conspiracy that sounds to me like you are pretty proud of rejecting Jewish opinion out of hand. Hey, I went to a gifted school, those Jesus-murdering devils are pretty smart. That was TOTALLY a joke.
[Al Pacino] I’M THE BAD GUY!!!?
The only difference between Israeli violence and Palestinian violence is this,
If you accept at face value what most people with any military knowledge say – the Israelis could kill all the Palestinians and seize huge chunks of the Middle East before any nation could stop them, if anyone would dare. If you accept what most people say, etc., about the Palestinians, they are so impotent that they must resort to terror bombing every time an Israeli politician visits a holy site.
OK, so Israel clearly is showing massive restraint, even though their kill ratio is probably 10 to 1, mostly civilians. There is the human shield issue. But, basically, lots of people are dying horribly for nothing. My proposal, suggested by everyone, is stop killing each other for a long time and maybe things will work themselves out through negotiations.
Those on both sides need to be controlled. Radical Zionists can be voted out of office. Your suggestion for the Islamist nutballs is?
Really, I’d like to hear it.
Your logic is stupid.
With the same logic I could say, that Hitler was a good guy, because he only killed 6M People, he could have done 12M. He restrained himself, actually.
So if “I restrain myself”, and instead of killing 30 people in a highschool with an automatic weapon, I only kill 2 with a knife, I am a hero?
The Israelis say they fired two missiles.
The palestinians say three missiles have been fired, the third went off course and hit civilians.
We will never know the truth. Personally I don’t think that the palestinians kill themselves in order to be able to present a massacre. The Israeli “proof” only proves, that none of the two missiles they admit did the damage, nothing more. They even formulate it this way:
Anyway, this is not the first time the Israel kills civilians without reason. They do what they want, they drop huge bombs on houses, destroy airports, destroy infrastructure (see the cites in my 09:27 post in this thread).
To even suggest that anti-Semitism does not permeate every aspect of “Christendom”* to some degree – that would include both Europe and most of the Americas – you been hittin that crack pipe too much. Yes, journalism. Yes, the legal profession. Yes, the medical profession. Well, maybe not that. Sorry, I can’t stop.
Sure, it’s a positive now that when some prick tells the truly nasty Jewish joke at the country club with one Jewish member about 80% of the gentiles stare and smile like someone just pointed a gun at them. But, fuck, what planet do you Europeans live on?
That article I posted just discusses statistics of “REPORTED” anti-Semitic incidents in France, then goes on to explain how some law enforcement and legal reform might be needed. I’m now being charitible.
*For shit like this you must get medieval, and beyond. Well, at least as long as recorded history of the Jews. Can’t speak for the other stuff. Not to say that other minorities don’t get oppressed, but the Big Three: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam seem to fight a lot for being monotheistic and supposedly respectful of one another.
If you’re talking about concentration camp deaths, the total is about 11M.
6M Jews, 1M Gypsies, 4M others.
Approx 50M dead in WWII for all causes, civilian and military.
You are really quite an ignoramus, in a sweet sort of way.
Yes the Israelis are Nazis. Thank you for giving me a good reason to throw up my hands and never return to this thread.
You have sufficiently proved my point that no further comment is necessary.
Well, just one thing: when did the German Jews declare Germany to be Jewish lands and begin a terror bombing campaign against the Nazis? I study a lot of history, and I missed that.
Beagle, Christianity and in particular the catholic church is responsible for a vast ensemble of dispiseable acts, some of them going back to middle ages. We also might cite the relation to science, as an example, inquisition etc.
[QUOTE]
But, fuck, what planet do you Europeans live on?
[QUOTE]
On the same as you …
I don’t think that Jews are not well treated in France, and I am not even French. I know more cases of “Anti-arabism” that “Anti-semitism”.
And jokes are jokes. They are nasty, of dispisable taste, and they hurt. But they are told by ignorants, and ignorants exist in every country. I am an Immigrant in this country and I had my share of jokes. You want one?
“How does a German cook?”.
“First he occupies der Kitchen”.
I have to live with the fact, that people who lived 50 years before I lived, performed a genocide on 6M people of diverse origins, Jews, slaws, gypsies, homosexuals, sick, handicapped etc. I am not responsible for it, neither are my parents.
That’s life. Get used to it. It’s only if you’re Jewish that you can cry “Anti-Semitim” whenever you are hurt.
Sigh ok, I only had 6M in mind, in a sweet sort of way. Doesn’t change my argument.
And: the massacres where not just done in the camps, they were also done by the SS on the battlefield in the eastern front. Anyway.
I never said that. I only showed you a flaw in your argument. For you to draw the conclusion.
I never said that, I don’t follow you.
Hey, isn’t that convenient? You get to say whatever you want and ignore whatever anyone else says on the grounds that they must be anti-Semitic. That’s certainly an interesting application of logic.**
And this is relevant to what? Did somebody say that anti-Semitism didn’t exist anywhere?**
A different one than you, apparently: we call it “Earth”.
I do like how you’ve lumped together an entire continent, with all its different cultures, under the heading of “You Europeans”; it really adds a lot of weight to your arguments.**
I don’t doubt it. But (and, see, this is an application of basic logic) the presence of anti-Semiticism in France does not mean that all French are anti-Semitic (and it sure as hell doesn’t mean that all Europeans are).
**
I’m well aware of the raw deal the Jews have gotten throughout history – the ghettos, the taxation, the pogroms, and so forth. It’s not relevant to the discussion at hand. **
That’s because their members are all people; human beings are a pretty unpleasant lot regardless of what religion they profess (or don’t, as the case may be).
Semiticism = Semitism.
:smack:
Hmm… Hitler mentioned… GODWIN!
My fault, and I even knew the law 
Well, the thread is closed.