It's a wedding, not a frat party (long)

BTW, that shouldn’t be read that marriages started with big weddings are less stable. I’m really glad I had my first big fairytale wedding (for all the trauma, doing the princess for the day thing was fun) and think that women who get the wedding of their dreams are lucky and should go for it. But getting the wedding of your dreams, where your friends and relatives align like the stars without anyone throwing a tantrum, and the money is there where you want it, and your hair turns out, and the photographer doesn’t lose the negatives, and your husband’s cousin doesn’t puke on the bridesmaids and your most embarrassing relatives have other plans, and everyone waltzes and no one requests the chicken dance - that wedding doesn’t happen too often - and in the end, isn’t the important thing anyway.

Before my big fairytale wedding, two things happened that made me take mine in stride. The first was a co-worker got married. After she got engaged and shortly before her wedding, her dad fell off a roof he was working on and broke his back. The second was another co-worker told me about a woman who’s hair caught on fire in the middle of her ceremony (it was a Christmas wedding with lighted candles in the bouquet - and I believe an entire can of AquaNet was used in creating her hairstyle).

If the wedding comes off without your hair catching on fire, its a success.

THespos, I don’t have much practical advice, having never been married myself. I do, however, know how your sister feels. My dad’s the same way. When parents want to control every aspect of their adult children’s lives, things start to suck.

Reading your most recent post…my heart goes out to your sister. My fiance’s roommate at the time was also the one who convinced him to give me that all-important first call. Not being able to invite him is a travesty.

As for the not-so-useful advice: screw the reception. I know your sister is worried about family relations, but, truth be told, there are going to be massive problems no matter what. Your sister will resent your parents for the rest of her life if she has to go through with this skata. Your parents will be angry with your sister if she cancels the reception. It’s six of one, half dozen of the other. The most logical choice would be to make the decision that will give her the most pleasant wedding.

Give your li’l sis a big hug for me.

I don’t think there is a way for your sister to win under these circumstances. Idealy she could say to your father cool have your party enjoy it, and then head to Vegas. Unfortunatly she probably is going to spend the day close to tears and no one deserves that.

THespos, it sounds like you’re the kind of brother she needs, and it’s wonderful the things that you’ve said you’ll do. If she feels she just can’t back out of the plans already in place, she’s going to need all the help you can give her.

But I agree with a lot of what the other people have said. I can’t imagine the pain she must be going through, but if it was me here is a summary of what I would do.

1)“Dad, sorry about the deposit, but we’re cancelling the reception bash as it stands. We will try and make it up to you someday”

THEN, call all your really close friends, explain this is an emergency, and ask for their help. They can probably help you do the following:

2)Make a new guest list, the people you WANT to be there, and make new invitations. Print 'em off the net, or if you don’t know how, get a friend who does to do it. Maybe the labor could be their gift.

3)Even at this late date it should be possible to find a hall or park or something for a reception. Does a friend have a BIG back yard, if worst comes to worst?

4)For food, is you planned on a meal, maybe the friends can help make it. Maybe one is a caterer and can help plan. Some of the guys could even just grill stuff. Have a contest even, with the bride and groom picking the best burger/steak/rib, or whatever, and the prize is a kiss from the bride, (or groom, if the winning cook is female)

Heck, if your sister was in Kansas, where I am, I’d make the cake, just to get her away from that reception as it currently stands.

  1. If it is supposed to be a clergyperson conducting the wedding, tell them what is going on and ask if they could please conduct a simple wedding service away from the church. Some denominations are more stuffy about this than others, but surely the pastor/priest/rabbi would understand. And maybe a friend could then play or sing for the wedding.
    I guess what all the above boils down to is that it is the couple’s day, not the parent’s, no matter who is paying. Tell her to ask herself, would she rather have it simple, fun, and happy, or grand, spectacular, and be miserable?

I would just like to make the observation that you are one cool brother, especially on the emphasized point.

Best of luck to your sister and her husband-to-be! (Everyone else has pretty much given the advice I would have, so I’ll be a well-wisher instead.)

THespos, as someone who had to tell her mother that she was a guest only and if she didn’t like the wedding plans that much, she didn’t have to attend…

Ask your sis how she wants to remember her wedding day. Ask her if, after 20 years of marriage she wants to remember a wedding with all the correct details and nice things, but none of the people she truly cares about most present, or a wedding that was the beginning of her marriage, that signified their new bond and was shared with her loved ones. Tell her to sit down with her SO and work out what is really important to them.

This is an addition to my earlier post. If your sister is worried about hurting her dad by refusing her help, ask her this. If Dad really loves you would he be doing something that so manifestly makes you unhappy? As Robert Heinlein, the sci-fi author, had one of his characters say “Love is that condition in which the happiness of the loved one is essential to your own.”

I very much like the bouncer idea. The mere thought of having my parents and my stepmom in the same room is enough to give me heart palpitations; my stepmom pretty much managed to ruin my college graduation by picking a fight with my mom, while my majorly PW’d dad said nothing. If I ever get married, the plan is to have a particular dear and trusted ex-boyfriend serve as bouncer. I’ll sit my parents and stepmom down beforehand (separately, of course) and pronounce that anyone involved in an altercation WILL be kicked out, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Dealing with the divorced parents issue sucks quite enough without throwing in the money issue. Maybe if someone just threatens Dad that Sis might run off to City Hall and thereby deprive him of the opportunity to wave his penis, ummm, I mean checkbook, he’ll understand that the parties involved are serious.

Thanks to all you Dopers from the bottom of my heart. You’ve given some really good advice here.

I had the call with my Dad just a bit ago. It went better than I thought in the sense that he didn’t yell, but he was definitely upset. I didn’t get agreement on the “no dates for divorced friends if their exes are going to be there” thing. Dad claims that anyone falling into this category has attended events with their exes in the past, including weddings, and that no one has had a major blow-up yet. This is something I have to verify. But I did get him to agree that no one else with an ex in attendence will bring a date, so I guess that’s something.

Dad did use the “I’m paying for the wedding” justification on the phone, though, and I did tell him that it’s not about him - It’s about my sister. He has trouble understanding that, though. I’ve laid it out to him in plain, simple English and I still don’t think he gets it. We didn’t get into the whole bumping of sis’s friends off the guest list thing, because sis and her fiancee are going to discuss inviting the “cuts” tonight. And, like I said, if Dad puts up a stink about paying for extra people, I’ll take care of it.

We’ve had one development though…Sis and I talked on the phone again and she mentioned that one of my mom’s good friends canceled because she heard her ex-husband was going to be there. There’s very little I can do about that, though. I can’t control her decision-making. Besides, even though this particular couple were good friends of the family while Sis was growing up, I don’t think either of them really belongs at the wedding.

The thing that infuriates me, though, is that the woman who canceled is really, really nice, but her soon-to-be-ex-husband (they haven’t formally divorced yet) has done some really scummy things. He was having an affair and one of his kids found out about it. Instead of coming clean, this guy threatened his own child and made him keep quiet about it. It wasn’t a violent threat, but still - That’s exactly how you scar kids for life.

Another attendee from the pool of my Dad’s friends has been married and divorced several times. That in itself isn’t terrible, but his last wife gave up kids for him (he had kids from a previous marriage and didn’t want any more). Her biological clock basically ticked out and soon after that, he divorced her. I can’t imagine how painful it was to give up having kids for someone, only to be unceremoniously dumped when hubby gets bored with the marriage and wants to go hang out with the boys.

One thing I’m learning about all of this is that I’m not really happy about the company my Dad keeps. Many of his friends are nice, decent people, but there are some real scumbags in his group of friends. It really hasn’t bothered me because I rarely see these people, if at all. But now they’re coming to the wedding and I’m not terribly psyched about it.

Sis is liking the idea of the backup reception more and more. She told me she’s ready to walk out if anybody steps out of line with their behavior. I’ll be in charge of rounding up the cool people at the regular reception and letting them know where the party’s moving to, should there be a catastrophe.

Fingers crossed…

There you go, THespos. The wedding as paid for by your father is a “work-around” - you and your sister and her fiancé will just have to work around it for her to get a wedding that she can look back on with fond memories. Her and her fiancé leaving way early is probably the best bet - and within etiquette rules, as well! First dance and OTFD!

Dread Pirate Jimbo and I got married last August, and I was trying to picture dealing with the stress your sister is experiencing to go along with the normal pre-wedding jitters, and my heart totally goes out to her. The last thing she needs right now is this kind of total bullshit - my wedding was our way all the way, and I still had a severe case of nerves. This just isn’t right.

– you’re a hell of a nice guy. I’m sure your sister appreciates your as much as you deserve to be appreciated.

I agree with most of the people who have posted here with variations of the “elope and stick Dumb ol’ Dad with the deposits” plan, but I don’t blame your sister for not wanting to go there. That type of take-no-prisoners approach to family confict is a LOT easier suggested than carried out! So, the damage-control approach you’re helping her develop is much the better choice. My only worry now is that she won’t feel comfortable re-inviting her un-invited friends. She and her future husband may feel funny about inviting them at what is, in wedding-talk, the last minute. Please tell her that, given the situation, they’ll all understand and be happy that things were resolved so happily – thanks to her hero big brother.

THespos, just chiming in to say that you kick ass. Will you be my brother, too? :wink:

And while I agree with those who’ve said that it’s the marriage, not the wedding, which ultimately counts, I can tell you that several ex-brides (all of whom are still married) have said that what you remember most about your wedding is not how amazing the flowers were. It’s not how your Aunt Wanda gave an amazing, heartfelt toast that made everyone cry. It’s not how even the caterers said that yours was the most beautiful dress they’ve ever seen.

Nope.

What you remember is that your second cousin Jimmy got drunk and broke one of your toasting glasses.

It’s that your coworker, who was invited alone, begged you to let her bring her new beau . . . and then didn’t show up at all.

It’s that your husband’s ex-roommate brought his kid to the wedding, even though you’d specified that it was an adults-only affair, and then your best friend sat through the whole reception in a huff, because she’d obligingly left Junior at home, and hired a sitter at eight bucks an hour.

As a bride-to-be (though who knows when, since we’re paying for it ourselves–guess why?–and haven’t saved a dime towards the cause), I can only hope that this isn’t true . . .

. . . but somehow, I believe it.

Hell, one of my friends has been married for 10 years, and is STILL! telling her husband that she wants a do-over.

So you have to tell us how this whole thing turns out, THespos, and let me say again that you rock. Your sister’s lucky to have you.

I agree. Or at least, switch to a small civil service maybe, with her friends all in attendance.

And I think it essential someone tell Dad to stick his money where the sun don’t shine. What a complete asshole. To bully his own daughter on the occasion of her wedding. . . . no wonder he’s divorced.

I just want to join the chorus that the OP is the best big brother ever. In fact, I’m beginning to think that mine was defective, and am considering trading him in for a better model. Can anyone point me towards a retailer for the Thespos2000?

Aww…Thanks, y’all.

Actually, I’m just trying to make up for our childhood years, when I used to do stuff like pull her pigtails and fling mashed potatoes at her at the dinner table.

Athena hit the nail on the head- cancel it and elope. There is no way to have fun when someone is manipulating you and forcing their guests into your party. What an asshole thing to do.

Hear, hear. I think I’d be tempted to call the wedding off on principle in this case, just because Dad seems to have his head so far up his ass that he’s given himself a boob.

But then, I can’t stand to take money or any other favors if there are strings attached, so I thought maybe I was just being especially sensitive to the OP.

I think the (nice) woman who cancelled is the only one out of this crazy crew who is exhibiting anything remotely related to decency (I think we can agree that maturity careened over the guardrail a while ago).

I’d make a giant poster of this stellar example of grace, collect all the squabbling retirees in a room (with apple juice and graham crackers to they don’t get whiny) and explain (remember to annunciate your words) that it’s NICE for BIG PEOPLE to think of OTHER PEOPLE before THEMSELVES, especially if the OTHER PEOPLE are having a party like a WEDDING, for example!

Another vote for what a great brother your sister has in you!

Thespos, you are, indeed, a wonderful brother to offer not only your support, but your financial assistance, should it be needed.

That being said… your sister needs to do 3 things. First of all, she has simply GOT to grow a spine and tell her father that this is her wedding, not his, until it sinks in.

Secondly, then she absolutely must invite every single friend of hers and her fiancés who she wants to be there to share her special day. She must. If she doesn’t, she will look back on this day with regret for the rest of her life.

And finally, she absolutely has to figure out a way to either cover the additional expense on her own, or cut costs somewhere else, in order to be able to afford it. She’s getting married, for heaven’s sake – it’s time to grow UP and start accepting some responsibility for the things she wants in life. If her father isn’t willing to put enough money towards the reception to cover all the things that she wants (including additional guests), then by god, she’d best be willing to pitch in, herself. If she and her fiancé can’t afford to spend a few hundred bucks of their own money on their own wedding then they have no business getting married.

I speak from first-hand experience with this, as I just went through this very thing myself last year when Spiny Norman and I got married. My father gave us a budget – he was willing to kick in X amount of dollars. If we couldn’t plan the wedding we wanted for that, well, we’d have to pick up the rest of the tab – and we did! It was, after all, our wedding!

Your father is absolutely wrong in how he’s treating your sister, but your sister is just as wrong for a) allowing it and b) giving him the ammunition he needs to treat her that way (ie, expecting him to pick up the entire tab and not be willing to pitch in herself).

Believe me, certain members of my family made it quite clear that they didn’t like some of the things we planned – especially that we weren’t going to host a “rehearsal dinner”. I flat out told them, “too bad, so sad”. First of all, a rehearsal dinner isn’t a requirement (believe me, I checked all the wedding etiquette sites!) and secondly, it simply wasn’t in our budget (and it’s not a tradition in Denmark, so we weren’t going to insist that his parents pick up the tab for something like that, either). The money my father gave us went entirely towards the wedding and there simply wasn’t anything left over for any additional party expenses. My sister was so rude to me about it that I finally did what others here have suggested – I told her if she didn’t like the wedding I was planning, she was free to decline the invitation and not attend. It was that simple.

And guess what – when it got down to the wire, my father decided to kick in a few extra bucks (“disguised” as a birthday present, since my birthday was the day before our wedding) because it was important to him. IOW, if he wanted it that badly, he could pay for it. Pretty simple.

Our wedding ended up costing us as much as it did my father and we were more than happy to contribute every penny of it!! Again, it was our wedding and any money we got from my dad was seen as a gift, not an obligation on his part.

And don’t think that because the wedding’s only a month away that things can’t be done to help whittle down the costs. I planned and executed my wedding in 6 weeks, so I know it can be done in such a short timeframe.

If she hasn’t gotten “party favors” for the guests, tell her not to. Or, if she has, and they’re not engraved, have her return them. We didn’t give them at our wedding and nobody cared. They’re a complete waste of money anyway, as people tend to not like or keep them anyway.

Have her call the florist and ask about reducing the number of flowers she’ll have. For insance, put them on every other pew instead of every pew, make smaller bridesmaid’s bouquets (or have them carry a single rose), ask them to use less expensive flowers instead of what she’s chosen (if that’s possible), or ask if they’ll do the arrangements with flowers she buys herself and have one of her bridesmaids go to a farmer’s market a day before the wedding and pick them up really cheap!

If she’s hired a limousine to take them to and from the wedding and reception, have her cancel it. If she’s that concerned about having her friends with her, where is it more important to direct the money she has – towards her friends or towards themselves?

If she doesn’t have enough pre-printed invitations to send additional ones to the friends she’s going to invite, tell her not to get expensive extras printed by the company she ordered them from. Not all the guests’ invitations have to match – heck, who’ll know the difference? Tell her to go to Michael’s or JoAnn and pick up blank wedding invitation stock (they sell them in packages that include envelopes and such) and print them herself.

If she bought expensive shoes at the bridal boutique where she bought her dress and they haven’t been dyed, tell her to return them and go to Payless or a mall shoe store. You can buy “wedding” shoes all over the place for less than half what these boutiques charge. And trust me, no one notices the bride’s shoes under her gown – and – if she’s anything like every other bride I’ve ever known, including me, she’ll kick them off less than halfway into the party anyway!

These are just some examples of what can still be done to cut costs at this stage of the planning without losing deposit money, etc. I’m sure there are a lot more things she could come up with if she sat down and gave it any thought and was creative about it.

So, after that long, rambling post, the bottom line is that she’s got to start taking some responsibility for this event – including financially (in spite of your generous offer). She’ll end up having the wedding she wants without guilt from her father (because she’s pitching in so he can just shut his mouth!), she’ll feel way less stressed and she’ll be much happier in the end because she won’t have had to compromise.

I hope she has as beautiful and memorable a day as Thomas and I had. And may their lives together be happy always!

Shayna, kudos to you. The only thing I have a problem with is this:

If only because, a wedding isn’t really um, crucial to being married. They can elope and go to a JP and that’s it. (Of course, if you mean how will they ever then afford a house, rent, expenses, then I agree!)