It's a wedding, not a frat party (long)

God … what happens to some people when they become parents? It’s like they suddenly develop an undeniable urge to live vicareously THROUGH their child’s wedding! I’ve sworn to my three teen-age step-daughters that I will never (ever) be like my parents and my friends’ parents when they’re ready to get married … and I sincerely hope and PRAY that I can live up to that oath.

I ended up eloping to Vegas with my husband because my parents … okay, my mother, specifically … was so out of control. I have never regretted our decision for ONE minute … it was the best thing we could’ve done.

I wanted a Christmas wedding (it would’ve been the first week of December) so the hub’ster and I sat down with my family in April and outlined specifically what we planned to do and why. I thought we were incredibly f*cking logical …

December = less cost on flowers/decorations because the church would already be spruced up for the holidays … green velvet for attendants = classy yet simple dresses they could wear again and again … classy Christmas music instead of DJ or band = cheaper reception, kitchier, and more memorable (plus, I thought it would be beautiful to walk down the isle to Silent Night … yes, I know … I’m odd) … and (what I considered my best idea) since I was 26 and my future hubby was 35 and we both had been living on our own for YEARS, I requested that instead of giving gifts, we have a lighted, un-decorated tree at the reception and on the invitations, request each guest bring a Christmas ornament to hang on the tree (with a name tag, of course, so we knew who they were from.)

GOOD LORD … seriously, people … you would’ve thought I asked for a human SACRIFICE! Here’s just a sample of what I heard …

“You are so selfish … what makes you think people want to go to YOUR wedding in December? Don’t you think people have other holiday obligations that are JUST as important?”

“What are you thinking … your dress is going to be filthy and NASTY … you’ll be walking through the snow and the bottom six inches of it will be BLACK from the slush!”

“Well, I hope you realize NOBODY will be there … do you ACTUALLY think people are going to want to TRAVEL in December?”

“You are so selfish … do you think people have nothing better to do with their money in DECEMBER but buy YOU a gift? <At this point I remind her of the ornament plan …> EXCUSE ME, but ORNAMENTS are not cheap! Don’t you think they have PRESENTS to buy?!”

… this was my favorite …

“Good Lord … do you think GOD wants you playing CHRISTMAS music during your wedding … and <gasp> your RECEPTION!?”

My father broke it up, right about the time I yelled, “No, MOM … I think God wants to hear the CHICKEN DANCE and STROKIN’! wait wait … maybe Father O’Malley can get a copy of I LIKE BIG BUTTS for the lighting of the UNITY CANDLE!!!”

heh heh … I can laugh now … but DAMN … it was BAD! My best friend Kim went through something similar … so she and her husband told the family to fuck off and paid for their own, small wedding. :slight_smile:

Seriously … it must be something chemical or biological … why do some parents just go completely INSANE when a wedding is being planned???

Thanks, Guin. And yes, I actually mean that statement both ways. You’re absolutely right that they could choose to go to a JP and avoid all the expense altogether – some people do that for reasons other than just financial, as well. However, she apparently wants a wedding – with all the bells and whistles. And I stand firmly behind my contention that if there’s a certain kind of wedding she wants and daddy isn’t willing to pay for every penny that type of wedding will cost – and she’s not either – then she has no business getting married.

At best, that’s a childish attitude, unbecoming a woman about to enter into a commitment as serious as marriage. At worst, it’s doing exactly what’s happening to her now – her father is controlling the purse strings and the puppet strings he’s attached to her back. If she wants to remain “daddy’s little girl” and insist he not only pay for her entire wedding, but accomodate her every wish and whim, well, she deserves exactly how he’s treating her. She can go stomp her foot in the other room all she wants (or cry to her brother on the phone), but it’s not going to change the fact that she’s being given a gift and acting completely ungrateful about it with her whining.

With Thomas and I paying for half our wedding, we had a strong leg to stand on when it came to compromising about things like the guest list. It also gave us a better appreciation of just how expensive fancy weddings can be, even when they’re small (we only had 35 guests!).

And because we bore the burden of half the expense – and because we respected the fact that any money my father provided was, again, a gift to be appreciated, we weren’t frivolous with our spending. We drove our own car to and from the wedding (which turned out to be a ton of fun because we tied wedding tulle to the antenna and got lots of honks and waves as we went down the freeway!). I bought my shoes at Payless. I printed my own inviations and (with the generous help of Scotticher!) punched holes in them, tied ribbons through them, addressed them, etc. And they turned out beautiful, if I do say so myself. Our venue could serve liquor, but didn’t have a license to sell it, so we bought all the booze at Costco.

There were no cheesey party favors, no little dishes of uneaten nuts to throw away afterwards, no fancy little bags of birdseed to hurl at us. I didn’t have a separate bouquet to toss (in fact, I didn’t toss one at all) and we didn’t buy a “grooms cake” (one cake was sufficient, thank you).

We had a live band, but we hired them through a friend whose uncle is a jazz guitarist and knows a bunch of guys in the business with whom he’s played for years and years. It wasn’t an “official” band that generally plays together, but they were willing to do so as a “favor” for our friend – extremely inexpensively compared to other bands we contacted and even cheaper than a DJ service. But just because they weren’t a “real” band, doesn’t mean we compromised on the music – these guys ROCKED! The lead guitarist (my friend’s uncle) was Barry Zweig, who’s played with the likes of Buddy Rich, Willie Bobo, Dinah Shore, Herb Alpert, Natalie Cole, Andy Williams and Peggy Lee. We had John Rodby, who’s performed with Burl Ives, Dinah Shore, Rita Moreno, Liza Minnelli, Danny Kaye, the late Shari Lewis and written arrangements for Frank Sinatra and Doc Severinsen. And on saxophone we had, none other than, Terry Harrington, otherwise known as the sax of Lisa Simpson(!) and who’s also played with people like Count Basie, Quincy Jones, Henry Mancini and Buddy Rich, Barbra Streisand, Mel Torme, Joe Sample and many, many more.

In addition, to scrimp a little more, we had Barry play guitar for the actual ceremony, too, instead of having to hire a separate musician. And he didn’t charge us extra for doing it, but we gave him a bigger tip than the other guys since he did more work.

So make no mistake, even with all the cost-cutting, we still had an exquisite wedding and reception. It is possible to do. (My scanner (which wasn’t putting out good scans anyway) broke and the photographer lost all the digital pictures she took to a computer virus, so there aren’t all that many up (especially of the reception), but if anyone wants to see what pictures we do have scanned, you’re welcome to take a look, here.)

SisterTHespos just has to decide what’s important to her and if it isn’t crucial, cut it. And if it is, she’d damn well better be ready and willing to cough up the dough for it. Othewise she comes out looking like an ungrateful little snot (which I’m sure she’s not!) and has a shitty wedding day that she wishes she could forget rather than wanting to cherish the memories of forever.

I’m constantly begging Thomas if we can do it again, but not because there are things that went wrong that I want to fix, but because it was the most incredibly awesome day in the whole world and there’s nothing more I’d like to do than to relive every amazing, fabulous, fun moment of it!

Every bride should have that. This one won’t… unless she ponies up some responsibility in it. I’m sorry to say, but it’s just that simple.

This seems like a pretty simple problem to solve:

  1. Your sister should refuse your father’s offer to pay for the wedding.
  2. She and her husband-to-be should be the only persons determining the guest list.
  3. Any conflicts between guests are not her problem. The happy couple should invite whoever they like, but have a security person or two on hand so that if any such conflicts do arise, the offending parties are quietly ejected.

-FK

Lovely pictures, Shayna! You looked beautiful! :slight_smile:

Just a thought…

Why not hire a bar to work the reception, people can pay for their drinks outside of water and maybe soda. This will cut down on a bill extensively.

I do not think you can do much about the food per se, but it is possible. Maybe cut out the lobster or another expensive meat.

If you can do some budget cutting, you can afford to invite your friends and his. It’s your wedding dear, and you should invite who you want to.

This might be hard, but let it be clear that you and your other have the right to invite people.

SP

THespos, you are an official A-1 Good Guy. You might consider asking you dad if he ever wants to see his future grandkids, because the way he’s acting now makes me believe he doesn’t.

You’re a good brother. Thank you for doing this for her.

I always said that weddings and funerals bring the worst out in people. Your dad is just a tad competitive, isn’t he?

Having an alternate reception party is pure genius. As soon as dinner is done, y’all ought to make like a tree and leaf!!!

Good luck.

Whoah, Shayna. Relax a bit.

The truth of the matter is, like CrazyCatLady mapped out earlier, that first Dad offered to pay for the wedding, then everything got booked, THEN this nonsense started going on with the guest list. Agreed that if this guest list bullshit is upsetting her so much, she should get a backbone and confront my father about it. But remember, she’s already stressed out enough as it is with this wedding coming up in a month.

However, my sister was told that she had $X to spend. She had to book the church and the reception hall nearly two years in advance. Most of the contracts and all were entered into over the course of the past year. These things are all locked in and there’s very little that can be done to cut back on expenses at this point. Party favors are done. Limousines are done. Flowers are done. My father essentially painted her into a corner when he pulled this crapola with the guest list, because that was pretty much the last thing that needed to be firmed up.

Your assumption that she’s “acting completely ungrateful about it with her whining” is wrong, wrong, wrong. My father isn’t living up to his end of the bargain. That’s the problem, not my sister’s attitude.

Didn’t mean to seem unrelaxed about it – that was primarily directed at Guin’s objection. However…

To which I say, so what? It doesn’t matter when the bullshit started. The answer is still the same. If your father is paying for this whole wedding, like it or not, he’s entitled to invite whomever he pleases, whether your sister likes it or not. That he’s childish enough to force her to exclude her friends in favor of his is a separate issue that she has every right to be righteously pissed at him about. But again, the answer is the same – if she wants her friends there that badly and he’s not willing to pay the extra money for her to have a larger guest list, then she needs to shut up and pay for the extra guests! I’m sorry, but that’s just the way it goes. It’s her wedding, so if she wants more people than her father’s willing to pay for, then she must pay for them.

And I call bullshit on that. There’s plenty that can be done, she’s just not willing to change things, apparently.

Are they engraved? If not – return them.

No, they’re not. They’re scheduled. She may have even guaranteed them with a credit card. But they can be cancelled. Guaranteeing limos with a credit card is for her benefit – meaning, they must show up on the schedule date and time because she’s paid for that service in advance. But that doesn’t mean she can’t cancel them if she doesn’t want them. If she keeps the limousines and continues to whine about not being able to afford meals for her friends, well, let’s just say that’ll tell me where her priorities lie – with herself and not her friends. What a shame that would be. It would also remove any right she has to complain about not being able to afford having them.

Again, no they’re not. So long as the wedding hasn’t happened yet, nothing has been done with the flowers. Even if she’s paid the florist (and I find it hard to believe she’s paid in full before they’ve even been delivered – the most we were require to do was put down a deposit – the balance wasn’t due until the day of the wedding), she can always call and tell them her budget has changed and now she wants carnations instead of lilies and to please refund her the difference.

That’s a cop out. She’s no further in a corner than she’s allowing herself to be put in. There are changes she can make if she’s willing to make a few sacrifices and a few phone calls. And it’s incumbent upon her to do so if she wants additional guests but isn’t willing to put out her own cash to accomodate them. Like I said, she needs to take on some of this responsibility – and with a smile – if she wants her friends at her wedding.

Nice selective quoting there, but that’s not what I said. Please make note of the IF preceding that quoted section. IF your sister wants this fairytale wedding, but she isn’t willing to expend a single dime of her own money to have it, then she’s acting like an ungrateful brat. That doesn’t mean your father isn’t acting like a gigantic horse’s ass – he most certainly is. But again, I reiterate, he’s under no obligation to pay a single penny for this wedding. He promised to do so – up to a certain dollar amount. He’s not renegging on that, but living up to his full promise by providing X amount of money. Now that he’s being a prick and demanding his friends be invited, making it necessary to go over budget to have the bride and groom’s friends, well, that extra expense can come out of 2 places – shave some of the expense she’s already planned so that they can still stay within the original budget or pitch in some cash themselves. Are they really that strapped that they can’t put some extra money in, themselves? Or are they just digging their heels in because they don’t think they should have to? Are they operating under the false impression that it’s the bride’s father’s responsibility to give them whatever kind of lavish wedding they want, or do they realize that anything they get is a gift?

Like I said, tell her to cancel the damn limos! It’s an extravagance that is completely selfish and completely unnecessary. The money from that alone will probably cover the extra meals at the reception!

I wish her the best of luck. I do hope she has a fabulous, magnificent day. The way she’s responding to the challenges she’s been faced with don’t give me much hope for not only this wedding, but for her future marriage, I’m afraid.

What a photogenic wedding you had, Shayna!

First, I agree with most of what Shayna said. Maybe some things are ‘locked in’ - but a damned sight more are ‘if you back out now, you owe us 20%’ or some such. But that’s not the important thing.

The important thing is this:

**The wedding costs practically nothing. The big bucks are in the reception. **

This means:

  1. KHespos can invite all her friends to the wedding, to the extent that the church has room in its sanctuary. Call the church secretary and ask her what the capacity is.

  2. With the reception, she’s got lots of options to accomodate her friends who weren’t on the list of official invites. (a) She can do the oft-proposed alternative reception (I still think that’s best) and join her friends there as soon as she and hubby-to-be can duck out of the official one. (b) She can follow Shayna’s excellent advice and cut costs wherever she can to squeeze as many of her friends into the official reception. Or © she, hubby-to-be, and you can come up with the money for the additional guests.

Anyhow, THespos, what you can do for her (in case she goes with option (b)) is call all these people - florists, limo drivers, wedding cake bakers, providers of party favors, band manager, deejay - and find out what’s owed if the arrangements are cancelled. (And remember that if they don’t have a signed contract with her or daddy, saying how much she owes in case of default, she doesn’t owe jack, no matter what they say.) Whoever’s providing the bar services, be it the reception hall or another outfit, probably have different options in terms of what the guests are charged for; open bars are expensive. Even going to open bar for beer and wine, but guests pay for mixed drinks, would probably save a bit. Be ready to act as her negotiator. Find out what she’s really stuck with, and offer to bargain like crazy over everything else.

But having the people you care about with you on your wedding day is a hell of a lot more important than having a party that’s just-so. Or should be, anyway. If not, then somebody’s got their heads their asses. First thing to do is find out where sis stands on this. Because if she’s got her head up her ass, then there ain’t a lot you can do for her.

Not having read the thread (bad Esprix!), I’m with the “elope and let your parents pay for their own fucking party” crowd.

:smiley:

Esprix

I have to disagree with this sentiment. Just because he’s paying does not mean he sets the guest list. No way, no how. It’s not his wedding, even if he is paying for it. His paying for the wedding should be considered his gift to his daughter and future son-in-law, not some kind of ownership deal where if he pays for it, he owns it.

The reason I asked you to relax, Shayna, is that you’re being awfully presumptious. The reality of the situation is that you only know what I’ve told you so far. You don’t know whether my sister and her husband have chipped in any money to pay for the wedding (they have). You don’t know how “lavish” the wedding is or what the financial arrangements are with the vendors contributing to the wedding, or what our family is like or anything. But it’s okay for you to say, essentially, that my sister is a whiny bitch if she doesn’t cancel X and Y to fund the guest overage. A little sensitivity, please? It should be obvious to you that this is a bit of a difficult situation for me, and that I love my sister dearly. Can you blame me for being a little miffed at your comments?

It most certainly DOES matter when the bullshit started. Because if sis is going to fund the additional guests, she has only A MONTH to find out how to do it. And frankly, she shouldn’t have to considering my father’s behavior and his insistence on inviting people my sister doesn’t know/doesn’t like.

I disagree completely with your assertion that my father is entitled to invite whomever he pleases. Basic common sense dictates that it’s my sister’s wedding, not his frat party. Sure, he can open the floodgates and let all his friends attend, but then it really isn’t my sister’s wedding, is it? It’s a party for him, which is what the OP was all about. It’s not a separate issue. The issue is intimately connected to my sister’s difficulty in getting the people she wants to go. After all, if these friends of my father weren’t coming, there wouldn’t be a problem, would there?

She doesn’t want more people than my father is willing to pay for. She wants her friends to take precedence over my father’s. That it’s the other way around is an unforseen problem - one that we have to deal with in short order.

Um, yeah, he IS obligated to pay for this wedding up to X. Because that’s what he promised to do. And when one makes a promise, it becomes an obligation. At least that’s how it is in my family.

Yes, he is living up to his obligation in the sense that he is kicking in $X. However, that this $X came with unforseen strings attached - strings that are causing her to have to scramble at the last minute - means that, no, my father is NOT living up to his obligation. He promised to pay for a wedding, not for a frat party.

There you go with that presumption again…

Did it occur to you that it might not be entirely a money issue? Let me give you some additional background.

My sister’s fiance is an accountant. Understandably, he’s quite busy this time of year. He works two jobs - one for a small accounting partnership and the other for a small company. Since January, he’s been working 12- to 15-hour days, six days a week for the first job. The seventh day usually goes toward the second job.

My sister is a cable media buyer for a large NYC ad agency. She also works insane hours this time of year. The TV upfronts, where the majority of a client’s television activity for the next year is purchased, are in early May. So my sister has to be busting her ass at work to prepare. A 12-hour day is the rule, not the exception this time of year for someone in her position. At this point, my sister uses pretty much any spare time she has to take care of “home stretch” wedding details, like making sure her dress fits, like making sure all of the bridesmaids have their dresses and that the groomsmen have all dropped by the tuxedo place to get fitted, etc.

So, it’s not only a money issue. It’s a time issue as well. Can you understand my frustration with my father, then?

Nice pot shot there at the end. Your feigned concern is taken in the same manner as it was given. :rolleyes:

THespos, it’s very obvious that you love your sister dearly (she’s very lucky to have a brother like you!) and yes, I know how stressful this time is. I just went through this, remember? I’m sorry to have offended you with my directness. However, please don’t put words in my mouth – I never called your sister a whiny bitch. Sadly, she doesn’t appear (from your representation here) to be acting like much of a grown-up, ready for marriage, either.

Your sister is having a lavish wedding – she’s having bridesmaids in full gowns with bouquets, groomsmen in tuxedos, a reception with music, dinner and party favors for the guests, a full bar and limousine service. That’s lavish!

And there’s NOTHING wrong with that. My wedding may have been small, and we may have done things like print our own invitations and drive our own car, but make no mistake, with a full bar, a live band and not just one, but three entrees (including paper wrapped halibut, roasted lamb chops and filet mignon), our wedding was lavish!

That description, in and of iteslf, is Not A Bad Thing. OK?

But I got a sense from all your posts in this thread that this statement made by you above, “and frankly, she shouldn’t have to,” is what was driving this whole rant – and what I was trying (obviously unsucessfully) to get across to you is the wrong attitude to have if your sister wants to relieve the stress and anger she’s feeling right now.

Again, I speak from experience. Let me preface by saying that I know your sister doesn’t have the exact same options I had, so I’m not recommending she do what I did. I’m merely pointing out that there are solutions, if one is truly genuine in their desire to accomplish their goal.

My father, too, wanted to invite all of his friends and business associates to our wedding. I Did Not Want That. I’d always dreamed of having a small, intimate affair with only our closest friends and family surrounding us, helping us celebrate our joy. My father wanted to turn it into a “reciprocity” event. Ie, he’d been invited to all these people’s kids’ weddings for the past 20 years. If he had to go to theirs, then they should have to come to his. And not only that, he felt it would be socially wrong not to invite them.

Well I don’t know most of those people and I did not want them at my wedding. I told my father this. Now, unlike your dad, who I have acknowledged is being an extreme prick to your sister over this situation, my father was at least nice to me about it. Basically, he pouted and sulked (maybe it’s a Jewish thing – you know, throw around a little guilt and you’ll get your way – but I digress ;)). And he did, ever so gently, suggest that since he was paying for this thing, he should be allowed to invite whomever he wanted (though it was never to the exclusion of our own friends). And I agreed. Like it or not, he was right. If he was paying to throw me a wedding, it really was, basically, his party and he had the right to invite the guests of his choosing.

The only solution was to take that “power” away from him. I did that in 2 ways… I moved the venue to California (where we live now) from Missouri (my home town). All his business associates weren’t going to fly all the way out to L.A. for his daughter’s wedding and he knew that. Therefore, inviting them would only make it look like he was asking for gifts and it was easy to convince him not to put them in that position.

Secondly, Thomas and I decided that if we wanted the wedding of our dreams, without other people telling us what we had to do and what we should do and what we needed to do, we were gonna have to be in control of at least half the purse strings on it. It may not seem fair to you, but it was a necessary fact.

Voila! We’re now “co-hosting” the party, we now have a LOT more say in what gets done or not done!

I tell you this because I want you to understand that I DO know exactly what your sister is going through and dealing with here. And I COMPLETELY AGREE that it’s BULLSHIT. Your father is an ass and I do sincerely pray he doesn’t ruin this day for your sister.

But he will if she allows him to!

Your sister is a grown woman, about to enter into a very serious grown-up commitment. She can either face these obstacles that have been (wrongly) dumped in her path and make the necessary personal sacrifices so her day is not spoiled, or she can whine and dig her heels in and insist that “she shouldn’t have to” and have a crappy day that she’d rather forget than cherish.

And the fact that your sister planned a wedding during the busiest time of her and her fiancé’s year isn’t going to win her any sympathy points for being all stressed out right now. I’m sorry. She’s got what she’s got because she planned it that way and she has to figure out how to sucessfully deal with it. If her wedding is that important to her, then she and her fiancé need to make time to address the problems that are popping up. That’s what life is all about. If she thinks this is bad, wait until she finds out what kinds of monkey wrenches marriage will throw in her path!

Now, as her brother who loves her and wants to help, you have several choices. You can stay the heck out of it, hug her and give her a shoulder to cry on and simply “be there” for her as a big brother. That will accomplish exactly nothing. But we’ve already established that you’re willing to do a whole lot more than that.

You can keep doing what you’re doing – trying to intercede on her behalf with your father and pitching in your own money if he won’t budge. That will certainly solve the problem of your siter’s friends being able to attend the reception, but it won’t do much in the way of family relations. I can only imagine it will lead to further hurt feelings, animosity, arguments and resentment.

Or, you can call your sister and invite her to coffee tomorrow morning. Tell her to bring all her wedding planning stuff with her. Find out exactly how many friends didn’t get invited that she wants to invite. Calculate exactly how much the extra meals will cost for that number of heads, assuming they can all attend. Then go through each item, one by one to determine which things can be reduced and which things can be sacrificed.

I strongly recommend cancelling the limo service. I know she wants it – it’s part of the dream, the fairy tale. But she has got to weigh how much she wants that vs how much she wants her friends by her side. And if she’s absolutely insistent that she have transportation, help her look for alternatives to limousine services that will be just as lovely but not as costly. I’ll even go so far as to bet that one of the groomsmen would get a huge kick out of getting a chauffeur’s hat and “playing” the role!

I’m serious when I say that the flowers are not “done”. Your sister has chosen the ones she wants, but they’re not gown, picked, delivered to the florist, arranged and delivered to the wedding yet. And until that happens, she should be able to change anything she wants about them. And I promise you that, if her florist is a decent human being, he or she will be happy to substitute less expensive flowers for the ones she’s chosen.

Did your sister hire a professional photographer? If so, did she pay for a “package”? If yes again, have her call the photographer and see if they’d be willing to work on an hourly basis instead. That might help reduce some expense, as well.

Also, keep in mind that there will be a lot of people who’ve been invited – including your father’s frat boy friends (who, by the way, I think you’re projecting way too much vitriol towards – they may be perfectly lovely people socially, in spite of what you think of them morally, who would never dream of causing a scene at a friend’s daughter’s wedding), who will decline the invitation. Every “regret” she receives is room for 1 more friend who can be accomodated!

You can do this. You can make this happen and have it be just as lovely and elegant an affair as she’s always dreamed of, have all her and her fiancés friends there with her and stick to the budget your father has provided. Let your father be the stubborn prig – don’t you be!

In all seriousness, I do wish your sister the best day possible.

I think we all pretty much agree that your father is an asshat who had no business pulling what is, morally speaking, a bait-and-switch.

The problem is, unless someone can make your father see reason in the next month (it’s not the way to bet, is it?), your sister and her hubby-to-be are pretty much stuck with your father inviting all his buddies and their ‘guests’ to the wedding and reception.

And regardless of his moral footing, as long as he’s writing the checks for the party, it’s damned hard to stop him from doing what else he wants with it.

Regardless of Shayna’s tone (we differ on how reasonable it was), the fact remains that she was trying to show you what options your sister has, operating within the constraint of your father continuing to act the way he is. As are most other posters here. As am I.

And I’d like to have sex with Susan Sarandon.

I realize it’s got to hurt your sister, to realize that he cares about her so little that he’s using her wedding as an occasion to have a big party for his friends while pushing hers out of the picture.

But that’s the reality, and at some point in the next several days, she’s got to decide what she’s going to do about it.

What you need to do is do is as much legwork as possible, as quickly as possible, to be able to show her what her options are. Shayna has given you a goodly bit of advice on how to pursue the cut-costs-to-squeeze-in-more-guests option. (And CrazyCatLady provided a link to a site where further advice can be found on doing a wedding and reception on anything from a shoestring on up.) What you do with it is up to you.

But Shayna’s right on the basic point. You can ameliorate the effects of the time squeeze. But only your sister and her intended can decide what to do. And to make a good decision, whichever one she makes, will ultimately involve backbone. That has nothing to do with her time crunch.

Um, aren’t cash bars supposed to be an etiquette no-no?

Lovely pictures, Shayna. But um, I don’t think it’s obvious that KHespos is a spoiled brat. Her dad sounds like an asshole. It could just be she’s afraid of speaking up against what her DAD wants. And you know what? Even if he IS paying for it, he has no right to be a jerk about it, and invite his buddies, at the exclusion of HER friends. She doesn’t know these people.

It sounds more that she’s just-I hate to say it-a doormat. She’s too nice to stand up and say, “No, Dad, that’s NOT how it’s going to be.” And to be prepared to pay for it all his own.

So he’s a prick, and she’s being a wimp. Neither one of them is totally blameless. (However, it could be just that this is his sister. I mean, I started a Pit thread a year or so ago to complain about my sister, but when someone started calling her a “cockteaseing slut”, I ripped him a new one. She’s MY sister. That’s just how it is.)

However, THespos, your little sis REALLY needs to get a backbone, and stand up for herself. Otherwise, she can’t really blame Dad totally.

As for the arrangments, I know NOTHING about weddings and stuff, so I have no clue as to what can be done.

Just wanted to say that Miss Manners has sone excellent advice on these and related issues, including ones on wedding finances, divorced parents, and cash bars. Plus, she’s funny as hell.

I advise you buy her book(s), find a couple of choice applicable bits, take them to your sister’s house, and have a stiff drink and a couple of belly laughs BEFORE you pull out the lists and spreadsheets.

GAH! First of all, thank you for the compliment. (And thank you also, to LunaSea and Juniper200!). But again, I am respectfully requesting that you not attribute things to me that I didn’t say. I never said KHespos was a spoiled brat. I went back over every post I’ve made in this thread and there’s not one “spoiled”, “brat” (or “bitch”) in any of them. The worst adjectives used were “ungrateful little snot”, which were used in an IF/THEN statement and followed by “(which I’m sure she’s not!)”. Meaning, IF she does “a”, THEN that’s what she’d be, which, again, I clearly said I was sure she was not. GAH again!

THespos, I’m sorry for making you think I was attacking your sister. It was not my intention.

But dammit, man, this is a test of the mettle she’s got for facing adversity and challenges in her married life. Trust me, as sucky as this is (and I agree that it is), this is the easy part!

The date is only drawing nearer. Stressing will not help. Now is the time for her to take a deep breath, suck it up and take action! Make it work!

And you know what? There’s one more thing you can do to help alleviate some of her stress. Find out what kind of arrangements she’s made for pampering in the 2 days prior to the wedding. I’m sure she’s scheduled a manicure and pedicure, but has she scheduled a full-body massage? I know those 2 days will be jam packed with last-minute things to do, but she will be so much more relaxed about doing them if she takes an hour out of one of those mornings and lets herself be pampered. And if her fiancé is into it, he should have one, too.

Thomas and I set aside time the day before our wedding that was just for us to breathe, relax and revel in the fact that all that was left was the fun part! We scheduled appointments for massages at a massage school which are way cheaper ($25!) than going to a fancy salon or spa. See if there’s one in your area and make it a gift to your sister and her fiancé. And then ask her what last-minute things need to be done (is there something that needs to be picked up somewhere, do final payments have to be dropped off with vendors, etc.?) and offer to do those things FOR them while they’re taking time out to be pampered. Believe me, there’s no better gift you could give them than your time and help, especially in those final days.

Shayna, I’m sorry I got all pissy. I respect you as a poster, and I don’t want to be all standoffish about this, especially since you’ve gone out of your way to offer up some very helpful suggestions. I apologize.

I had another conversation with KHespos this morning (I called her at work). Regrettably, she’s made up her mind to essentially cave in to my Dad and hope for the best. I think she should stand up for herself, but I can’t make her. And I realize that in caving in, she forfeits all right to complain, but placing blame shouldn’t be the focus here. Making the wedding as good as it can be, given the circumstances, should.

I guess I’m going to have to drop by her place tonight and lay everything out on the table. I want my opportunity to ask “Is that your final answer?” with regard to this situation. If she says yes, I’ll be disappointed at her lack of a backbone. If she says no, I’ll work with her to do whatever we can to fix the situation.

I’ll let y’all know how it goes. And once again, thank you for all the advice. (Even the stuff that was a bit difficult for me to hear.)