I've been outed!

[Lok]

Good luck with your future discussions. I have had some experience with families just letting it go, despite being straight.

My family, both immediate and extended, thought I was gay for years. Why? Cause I didn’t go out with girls and I was 30. :dubious: The fact that I was (and am still unfortunately) socially inept, don’t drink, smoke, or party (unlike most of the people in this area), and am able to enjoy being alone didn’t seem to register as reasons for my not meeting anyone. I found all this out when I finally started seeing someone and my sister told me. I asked her why noone ever said anything to me and she told me, they figured if I wanted them to know, I would tell them. :smack:

Families are so much fun.

[fervour]

@bathsheba

I think you handled it beautifully. I assume you were paving the way for any future discussions. . . .

Thanks. I believe that we are open to further discussion. I wouldn’t be surprised if we talked again, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it never came up again. Maybe it’s because I’ve been a gay male in a conservative area, I have no problems compartmentalizing my life. I don’t need to know everything about your life to be your friend and assume you don’t need to know everything about my life to be my friend either.

[ZipperJJ]

I’m glad you and your SO can live together and you can simultaneously be a part of your mom’s life.

IMHO it would suck more to be apart from her because you are gay than it would/will suck for you to endure being closeted to her.

Good work on the talk, I say.

[Sampiro]

I’m glad it went well. It WILL be the invisible elephant for a while, count on it, and I’m not trying to concern you but just to forewarn and forearm you as someone who’s been through an outing and knows many others who have, she has not forgotten it and it is very much subject to recall, so again- go ahead and plan for a temporary safe-house/keep some cash or available credit just in the event an evacuation is called for (in south Alabama you should be used to that ). It will probably only be temporary if it’s needed at all.

My mother, who was not as religious as yours admittedly, never came around in the “Proud Mother of a Gay Son!” Deb from Liberty Ave. way, it just was not in her. She did learn to accept it and not try to get me to change it and I think that she knew it wasn’t her fault or mine and it was unalterable. What I think really did it was about a week long separation after she told me she would rather I was dead. I basically gave her her wish and became dead to her- left her house that moment, didn’t return phone calls, came for clothes and supplies only when she wasn’t there (took nothing that wasn’t mine obviously) and the like. We were always close and- well, we were a duo, we fused together through some pretty godawful experiences together- but I could count on one hand the number of times I’d yelled at her before this period when we went to war. I didn’t realize that my troops had been collecting and provisioning and stockpiling all those years, all the resentments and all the times I’d bitten my tongue- when we did argue we’re talking ‘loose cannon’ ‘scorched earth’ ‘kill them all and let god sort it out’ 'kill everything that pisseth against a wall and bring me a Stuckey’s nutlog and a TV Guide when you’re done selling the villagers into slavery" style arguments (we could both go from zero to vicious in nothing flat but this was the first real “civil war” with each other).

I wish I could take back [not to say I didn’t mean them] in response to the “rather you were dead” comments, but I can’t. (Just remembering those arguments- damn- that was some ice cold stuff [a friend who’s a professional therapists and who I was venting to about it at the time asked me what was said; I told her “it was pretty bad on both sides”.
“Well, I’m a professional, trust me, I’ve heard worse, what was said?”
So I gave her a play by play. And I looked at her to ask “What do you think that…” and noticed her eyes were glazed and her mouth was open. She just said “Goddamn… you two don’t play, do you? Do you start arguments by bowing and then running at each other with swords?”
But when the smoke cleared (and it did) it was largely status quo antebellum. She never did apologize- in spite of repeated requests- for saying she’d rather I was dead, but I knew she didn’t mean it and would apologize if she could (and she knew I knew it and I knew she knew I knew it- etc.- Lion in Winter reference), and as much as “pride fuckin’ with ya head” wanted me to just completely sever contact with her, I just couldn’t. We continued to be there for each other whenever needed, we went through some good times and bad times afterwards, and she was still good for some nasty poison dagger comments from time to time but- well frankly, I wouldn’t draw first blood but I would defend and go on offensive and it stopped a lot of it. As I have said many times since she died “She was a manipulative emotionally-selfish irrational and only half-stable old bitch… and God how I miss her, cause she was also the finest human being I’ve known” (and that’s true).

Anyway, got off on a tangent, but the point is based on my experience and on those of many others I’ve known, and I’m saying not to worry or depress you but just to prepare you- it ain’t over. The big battle is probably still ahead. Be prepared, don’t use a sledgehammer to crush a flea, also don’t take shit. DO NOT TRY TO DESTROY HER RELIGIOUS FAITH- the “pray to your ghosts til you’re blue” life is often the only sustenance some people have- but try to work within the infrastructure of the faith (I had some success on that with my mother actually- tons of threads on the board and web pages for the basics of gay apologetics {what God himself said the sin of Sodom was [hint:wasn’t homosexuality and preachers know this perfectly well] to the obscure stuff like arsenokoites/malakoi/born eunuchs stuff. The great thing about a supernatural belief system is you can work damned near anything into them if you want to, and for most mothers of gay sons they want to work you into it.

If you don’t mind my asking, how old are you (i.e. old enough to be self supporting or still the McJob age)? And is your father around and if so how’s he taking it?

And apologies for rambling, but- well, as one “grew upon a dirt road in Bama” gay son of a mom with an “interesting” belief system (and my sister’s a balls out South Alabama Hagee loving religious wacko who may well go to the same church as your folks) tis a bit of a “subject of interest”. Sorry for TMI given or asked.

[Sampiro]

I’m glad it went well. It WILL be the invisible elephant for a while, count on it, and I’m not trying to concern you but just to forewarn and forearm you as someone who’s been through an outing and knows many others who have, she has not forgotten it and it is very much subject to recall, so again- go ahead and plan for a temporary safe-house/keep some cash or available credit just in the event an evacuation is called for (in south Alabama you should be used to that ). It will probably only be temporary if it’s needed at all, but ask 10 gay men from conservative families and at least 8 will agree: the showdown will come, there’s absolutely no predicting what will trigger it [a gay pride parade and gay-porn-on-ice show going on when your mom’s at Wal-Mart may get no no reaction at all, while you or SO asking her “what’s something I can add to this barbecue sauce for extra flavor?” may get a response of “try some zest and pepper and WHY ARE YOU PUTTING ME THROUGH THIS HAYULLLLLLLL… oh GAWD LET ME DIE NOW! Orange zest not lemon, both sweet and tangy, oh WHY ME I JUST CAN’T TAKE THIS and a little garlic but not too much OH COCKSUCKERS IN MY HOUSE!” response (and that’s really not just in my family), so be e’er prepared.
ETA: Apologies for the redundancy- I meant to edit the above but posted reply instead. This is the first paragraph from above edited a bit obviously.

[CairoCarol]

Based on my own experience, I’m not sure the OP ever has to discuss the “gay lifestyle” with his mom again - he’s there, he can make the best judgment. But I would not automatically assume that the fact it has been raised once by his mom truly means that she needs or wants to talk about it further.

My own experience is with the issue of virginity. Not such a big deal, you say, but when I was a girl coming of age in the 1970s with a traditional father, I assure you that my virginity was a HUGE deal for him. I had sex for the first time at age 16 and continued to enjoy myself thereafter, but I sure as hell pretended to my dad that I was completely pure.

So. One summer when I was 19 or 20 years old and living in Boston’s South End, my dad came for a visit and took me to lunch. As he was dropping me off back at the house where I was living, he said, in a grave, slightly strangled voice …“CairoCarol?”

I paused, knowing something was up.

“You, ah, you aren’t … ‘living’ with Brian, are you?” (Brian, of course, was my boyfriend at the time.)

I had to think fast. I was absolutely shocked that he’d raise the matter, because I figured that (a) I had him completely fooled; and (b) he had enough sense to realize that what he didn’t know wouldn’t hurt him.

Clearly, complete denial was in order, but I absolutely loathe lying. Anyway, I took a deep breath and said, in my best imitation of a hurt tone of voice “Daddy…what on earth would make you ask a question like THAT?”

He interpreted this to mean I was indeed the sweet innocent virgin he wanted me to be, and drove home, apparently mollified. And he never raised the subject again, ever.

I can’t explain what caused him to raise the issue in the first place, since it clearly was not something he wanted to think about. Maybe someone whispered something in his ear just as Mrs. C planted ideas in the mind of fervour’s mom. But in any case, he got over it.

While it is impossible for me to know if a similar dynamic could occur for fervour, I wouldn’t rule it out. As a general matter, I think it is sad and ridiculous that people have to hide who they are – how much better a world it would be if fervour’s mom had not been poisoned with an anti-gay attitude to begin with. But things are what they are. If fervour would prefer that the issue just go away, he ought to give it some time, and see if maybe it will.

[neutron_star]

@Lok

My family, both immediate and extended, thought I was gay for years. Why? Cause I didn’t go out with girls and I was 30. :dubious: The fact that I was (and am still unfortunately) socially inept, don’t drink, smoke, or party (unlike most of the people in this area), and am able to enjoy being alone didn’t seem to register as reasons for my not meeting anyone. I found all this out when I finally started seeing someone and my sister told me. I asked her why noone ever said anything to me and she told me, they figured if I wanted them to know, I would tell them. :smack:

Families are so much fun.

When I hit puberty, the awkwardness of it all, combined with the fact that I hadn’t yet had a girlfriend, and further combined with the fact that sex was something that simply was not (and still is not) discussed in my immediate family led to a situation where I never told my parents about any of the girls I liked, never pointed out cute women on TV, etc.

At around age fifteen, I taped up a couple of bikini girl posters on my wall. My mom wandered into my room and immediately got a very, very confused look on my face.

“What’s wrong, Mom?”

In a completely blasé tone of voice, she replied, “What? Oh, nothing. We’d just always assumed that you were gay.”

[fervour]

@Sampiro

. . . .

If you don’t mind my asking, how old are you (i.e. old enough to be self supporting or still the McJob age)? And is your father around and if so how’s he taking it?

And apologies for rambling, but- well, as one “grew upon a dirt road in Bama” gay son of a mom with an “interesting” belief system (and my sister’s a balls out South Alabama Hagee loving religious wacko who may well go to the same church as your folks) tis a bit of a “subject of interest”. Sorry for TMI given or asked.

I’m 42, SO is 39. My father just lies around all day. He won’t be a problem. That was an attempt at humor there. He died when I was 15.

The SO and I have a small stash of cash. We are self-made (well no one is really, but I think we are in the usual sense of the word). We both came from poverty; went to college on loans, grants, and scholarships; and worked to save what cash we have.

I am a planner by nature. The barn is legally mine. I don’t expect the worse, but I had considered what would happen in such an event. When I was planning, I reasoned for a worse-case scenario, to make me go away, would take at least half the money we invested to make the place livable. I say I planned that’s because my SO is more of an in-the-moment guy. When I bounce these ideas off of him, he is most often, “OK, yeah yeah, whatever you think is fine.” And when I try to impress upon him how important the decision is his eyes glaze over. He is OK with me making those decisions.

No need to apologize for rambling, all experiences are helpful for understanding what could happen. I don’t think it’s over, but I do think it may be over—unless Mrs. C. insists on picking at the scab and opening the wound. The SO and I have lived together for 11 years, I’m sort of like CairoCarol here with a twist. I was like 1) How could she not know? We’ve been living together for 11 years! 2) She must have generated a pretty big SEP field (somebody else’s problem) around the whole issue. 3) She had the sense to know that what she didn’t know wasn’t hurting her.

[fervour]

@neutron star

When I hit puberty, the awkwardness of it all, combined with the fact that I hadn’t yet had a girlfriend, and further combined with the fact that sex was something that simply was not (and still is not) discussed in my immediate family led to a situation where I never told my parents about any of the girls I liked, never pointed out cute women on TV, etc.

At around age fifteen, I taped up a couple of bikini girl posters on my wall. My mom wandered into my room and immediately got a very, very confused look on my face.

“What’s wrong, Mom?”

In a completely blasé tone of voice, she replied, “What? Oh, nothing. We’d just always assumed that you were gay.”

You and Lok must have pretty cool parents. I mean although your families aren’t open about sex ( and which families are?). They were pretty willing to accept anything about you.

[supervenusfreak]

@fervour

I was like 1) How could she not know? We’ve been living together for 11 years! 2) She must have generated a pretty big SEP field (somebody else’s problem) around the whole issue. 3) She had the sense to know that what she didn’t know wasn’t hurting her.

She knows. This is her way of dealing with it. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, just a coping mechanism. I think that number three (hello Opal!) really expresses the obvious, and is how she probably feels about the situation.

When I came out to my family and friends, I was pleasantly surprised that most of them already knew, without me acknowledging it. The last person that I told was my mother. It took some time, and some adjustment for the both of us, but eventually she came to recognize that my sexuality had nothing to do with her as a mother, and that I was a good person, just different from what she expected.

[neutron_star]

@fervour

You and Lok must have pretty cool parents. I mean although your families aren’t open about sex ( and which families are?). They were pretty willing to accept anything about you.

I’ve always thought that, too. Hell, they didn’t even judge me for smoking pot as a teenager, even though neither of them had ever even tried the stuff. I credit the lack of church.

[Sampiro]

@fervour

My father just lies around all day. He won’t be a problem. That was an attempt at humor there. He died when I was 15.

Same here. My father died the first time we ever shared a bed together, which as memory serves was also the last time. And as I’m the same age you are that would have been around the same time… eerie. (Your dad didn’t die during the blizzard of '82 by any chance did he? Cause that would be one of those really freaky things…).

[The_Second_Stone]

Here’s something to consider:

Ask your mom to sit down to tea, and tell the story of your brother telling you, and his kindness in waiting. Then tell her the truth, tell her you love her and respect, and hope that she comes to accept this. Tell her you are sorry that she found out the way she did. Tell her you are a bit angry that that the neighbor told her the way she did, but that you have learned from her (your mother) that turning the other cheek and forgiving wrongs is the best thing in a situation like this.

Your mom has known on some level for some time.

[The_Second_Stone]

Oh, and to really drive the lady next door wild, actually ignore the whole thing with her. Or, tell her that Christ has given you the power to forgive her in your heart.

[CairoCarol]

Originally posted by The Second Stone:
tell her that Christ has given you the power to forgive her in your heart.

Oh, I love that! I still wouldn’t suggest confronting Mrs. C, but if she ever says anything first, no matter what she says or what tone of voice she uses, this is just perfect: [sanctimonious tone]It’s okay ma’am, Christ has given me the power to forgive you in my heart for saying that[/sanctimonious tone]. Repeat as needed.

[nd_n8]

@mbh

Get a t-shirt with “Matthew 7:5” printed on it.

(For those of you who, like me, had to look it up, that’s the verse that says, “Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.”)

(Matthew 7:2 might also be good. “For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”)

There are a lot of hard core, bible thumpin’, God fearin’ people I know who get pretty pissed off when these two verses are mentioned. I have even heard some say “Jesus is not talking to his followers, He is talking to the hyprocrites. It is ok for the followers to judge.” Nice.

It sounds like your Sister-Bertha-Better-Than-You fits this description well.

Good for you for rising above and letting the confrontation go. Also kudos for the tact in breaching the conversation with your mom. Based on what I’ve read I would agree with your summation and agree that she is in consious denial. If she loves you (of course she does, she’s your mother) and loves your SO then let her deny until the horns blow. That’s what really counts anyway, not Ms. Meddle and her Ms. use of scripture.

[tdn]

There’s some really great advice in this thread, but everyone keeps dancing arond the real solution to this situation.

Are we al so removed from reality that we’ve forgotten the pure bliss of torching up a bag of dog poo?

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@as_u_wish

Hmmm. Well, maybe you should look up the scriptures on gossiping. Then quote them to her and tell her you fear for her soul due to her gossiping and will be praying for her.

You rock.

[fervour]

Sampiro, my father died of a heart attach and it was hot at the time. I try not to remember too much about it. Making a joke about his death when I was younger was about the best way to let people know that it didn’t weigh heavily on me.

When you are 17, 18, even 23, or 24 and people ask you about your father, and you say that he’s dead, they want to express condolences and generally don’t know what to say. It’s much easier to lead in with “He lies around a lot” or “Not to much” or “He’s retired. Permanently.” ----But it really isn’t necessary to joke anymore. At 42, one can say “He’s been dead since I was 15.” Most people will assume that you’ve dealt with it.

The Second Stone, you’re suggestion is similar to one of the many that Samantha proffered. I think I’ll wait and see how it goes for now.

edited to fix a fragment. —and change way to weigh :smack:

[Chimera]

@nd_n8

There are a lot of hard core, bible thumpin’, God fearin’ people I know who get pretty pissed off when these two verses are mentioned. I have even heard some say “Jesus is not talking to his followers, He is talking to the hyprocrites. It is ok for the followers to judge.” Nice.

“But doesn’t that make his followers hypocrites?”

“I mean, I realize a lot of Christians think that other people are sinners for doing certain things, but that because they’ve accepted Christ, they can do those same things without being sinners, but can’t you see how that double standard of behavior might seem a little hypocritical to some people?”

Ivanhoe was on TV again the other day. One of my favorite lines is where the Norman Knight refuses to sit at the same table with Isaac the Jew. The jester says “For every Jew you show me who is not a Christian, I’ll show you a Christian who is not a Christian”. I’ve been known to change ‘jew’ to ‘pagan’, ‘wiccan’, ‘atheist’ or what have you in order to use this line with some alleged Christians.