Aussie Doper checking in…
Hang in there mate. You’re a class act, and in my experience, good karma comes to those who pump it out. It’s my personal observation on the SDMB that, by and large, you pump out good karma - so there’s some good news around the corner.
Walk tall. And remember… as Napoleon once said… even in times of war, the industry of the stomach still prospers. Worst case scenario? You could start up a mobile lunch truck and service your local construction sites.
Airman:
I suspect that it is causing you to gradually realize that the policies and programs supported by the right are, in fact, not – emphatically not – in the interest of the poor. These are the sorts of experiences that turn intelligent, thinking people into “pinkos.”
Carnac has a lot of good points. The SDMB can be a resource for you in this situation. Regarding the tests, he’s right on the mark: answer in a by-the-book, politically correct manner. If they ask you if you’ve ever lied before, lie your ass off and say, “No, I’ve never told a lie.” Etc. Transform yourself into Saint Airman.
In addition, when you are rejected for a position, you know, it is in no sense unreasonable to schedule a meeting with your former potential employer and get feedback over what it was that caused him/her to select another candidate. That info will help you understand your strengths and weaknesses on the job market, so that you can modify your search accordingly. Doing so may also make an impression on the employer; let him know that should another a position in the company open up, you would be interested in it. It’s a way to get around the usual channels of contact and make a good impression.
Finally, do email your resume to Scylla. In addition, Mrs. S, my lovely pinko wife, is a job recruiting consultant by profession. She would be glad to look over your resume and give you some tips, if you’re interested. My email address is in my profile.
Finally, regarding the personal side of your situation: my heart goes out to you. I’ve also gone through a long bout of unemployment, and man is it an emotionally bruising experience.
Personally I found that, when hitting rock bottom, gritting one’s teeth a bit will help ease the pain. Also, the space under the sofa is good for hiding, when necessary. Just don’t forget to come out every second or third day for a bite of food.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed for you. Here’s hoping you find a good job soon.
My recommendation? If anyone asks “Have you ever lied?” respond “yes,” but quickly say you only fib when it comes to sparing your loved ones hurt feelings about their personal looks, such as when an obese cousin asked you if she was overweight or if your wife asks if you like her new hair style/color, etc.
No employer expects perfection and responding with the “ideal” answers, as I suggested, does not mean coming across as flawless–which itself is a red flag that you’re phoney. Think Eagle Scout–but one who has the tiniest chinks in his armor.
To those who think it’s unethical to give BS answers to BS questions, I’d think you’re family’s needs come before satisfying some bullshitting drone in HR. Go with the flow, give 'em what they want to hear. I’ll add, however, that you should consider checking out other fields.
My sympathies, Airman. For what it’s worth, my situation, though not as dire as yours, has been similarly difficult over the past year.
I was laid off from my firm at the start of last year. I spent eight months totally unemployed. Then, in August, a former colleague who had moved into an in-house position at a New Jersey corporation, called me up and told me that they had some short-term legal projects, and that they could bring me in on a short-term contract basis, albeit at a fraction of what I was making before. My time there is slipping away now, since all of those projects are pretty much done. I’ve been madly looking for a permanent gig in Texas, my home state, and although I’ve had some close calls, nothing has come of my efforts.
I still cannot believe the speed with which my career has crashed and burned. I’ve gone from working on billion-dollar transactions to handling routine government filings for $15,000 contracts. I’ve gone from a six-figure salary and absurd bonuses to scraping by at an hourly rate with no benefits. I’ve gone from being told I was one of the best lawyers in my class at a very large law firm to an endless series of doors being slammed in my face.
Even more depressing, I’ve come to believe that, barring some kind of miracle, I will never operate at anything approaching the level of sophistication I used to work at. Which kills me, because I loved doing big deals. And there are so many corporate lawyers who hate what they do, who only do it for the money, who dream of bailing out and doing something they love but stay on because they have student loans and the like – they all get to keep working, but me, who genuinely liked what I was doing, even when it involved nights stretching into the wee hours and canceled travel plans and the like, don’t get to keep doing it. It pisses me off to no end.
My apologies for the hijack; when I started, I only meant for this to be a brief statement of support and empathy. Our situation isn’t objectively that bad: I am working, kind of, and Ms. Undhow makes decent money. But it was cathartic to write all that. Just yesterday, a Houston firm that had essentially given me an offer contingent on a new partner bringing in a certain amount of his old clients, told me the new business just hadn’t come in. Just another swift kick in the balls; par for the course. Best of luck to you and yours, Airman, and know that you aren’t alone out there.
same here, the market is horrid. ive filled out about 40 applications and done about 15 interviews in the last 30 days or so and gotten nothing. my hope is that i will have an offer for part time, near min. wage work by my 150th application but i am not even sure if i can get that.
At least you aren’t the only one with economic problems right now. There is some comfort in knowing you aren’t the only one struggling.
I know the feeling, Dewey and Airman. I worked in publishing editing books and managing staff, and now I’m a temp receptionist because that’s the only gig I can find.
I’m contemplating a move into healthcare because that’s just about the only field that has steady demand and can’t be moved offshore.
Hugs to all.
A friend at university showed us an application for a “national” Security company he filled out whilst trying to find Summer employment. Some of the questions were so funny I still remember them:
“Does God talk to you?”
“Do you see people and animals that other people cannot see?”
“Do you have dreams about killing or harming people or animals?”
“How many times a day do you masturbate?”
For those of you looking for employment - have you tried a temp agency?
After months of job searching, I went into a temp agency and took their tests. I overheard in the office that they were looking for customer service, so I just asked for ‘whatever is open currently - customer service, office work, something like that’. I got into a job within a week that was temp-to-hire, and had a choice of several schedules. Due to their hiring needs, I was working a lot of overtime, too. I didn’t expect it to last as long as it did, but it pays the bills and I’m an interim supervisor now, after just over a year on the job.
Find a place that is hiring for something right now that’s potentially a long assignment, and try not to be overly selective. Don’t wait for them to call - keep applying with agencies until you find one that’s in need of immediate help. I waited over two months for Manpower to call me with a one-day job – by then I had already been offered a permanent position with the company I was temping for.
Dave, what state do you live in?
An often-overlooked area is retail sales at the big-box and specialty retailers. I’m guessing you’ve got some pretty good computer knowledge, and your position in the Air Force no doubt caused you to learn quite a bit about electronics and such.
I suggest checking into sales or even managerial positions at places like Best Buy, Radio Shack, Circuit City, etc. These places are top-heavy with young males who are often unreliable and lacking in knowledge. A solid, 28-year old person with some technical savvy is a pretty good catch.
The hourly wage will be low, but commissions can make for some pretty respectable paychecks, especially at Christmas. And they have a very mobile population which opens up lots of opportunity for advancement. I worked at Radio Shack when I was going to college, and within three years I went from salesman to assistant manager to being offered my own store at a salary of almost $60K plus a profit percentage. It’s easy work, and can be lots of fun and you get to play with all the latest toys.
Here in Canada, there are perpetual ‘help wanted’ signs out in front of most of these places. Since our unemployment rate is actually quite a bit higher than yours, this might be a fruitful avenue to check. If you decide to, my advice is to dress very well when you go around enquiring about jobs, and act very positive and outgoing. If you have no sales experience and they ask about it, say something like, “I have no direct sales experience, but I have a passion for technology, and in my previous career xxx I have had to make plenty of presentations and proposals that required good people skills and salesmanship.”
Indeed I have! Several, in fact… I took their tests. On MS Word, I came out as a “beginner” (despite having written a few published works in that very program). Temp agencies have nothing for me, which makes me want to either put a gun to my head or crawl inside a whiskey bottle. Astrogirl won’t let me do either, curse her!
The stanton test, if similar to one used commonly here in Oz, personality type test, is relatively easy to manipulate. There are recurring questions that are asked in differing ways about the same subject, the way the question is phrased changes the viewpoint of the person doing the test. Go through the test and answer all of the questions that relate to the one topic in one go, then onto the next topic. As has been said before, give them what they want.
They got workforce type jobs over there, employment agencies etc. Where your interviewed, join up, ring up in the morning and get told where there are jobs with the company. They are usually monotanous, spirit and back breaking but pay pretty good. I filled and stacked 40 kilo bags of cement for four years but the pay was $18 bucks an hour…fuck of a place that was.
ive only joined one but since im a college student i need part time work and all this place was offering was full time work (thats assuming i would’ve gotten the full time work). I should check out the other temp agency in town though just to cover my bases.
Airman D,
Does “been there done that” help…
I wrote this and decided against posting it, but fortunately I had saved it. I decided not to post it because of where this thread is, and the fact that I may become involved in something I don’t need to be involved in should someone take offense or go off on a tangent. I’m offering this as a food for thought, no more.
This as an example of a few considerations that helped me in the past. I’m no authority, nor am I an expert in HR of job searching. I’m just experienced.
I thought about e-mailing this, but, it appears that what I experienced, and what you are experiencing is not that uncommon. Maybe this will help someone else too.
This is not original material. It isn’t copied, instead, it’s from memory, based on information I learned in a class and workshop years ago, I can’t find the original material anyway…
The Job search and application.
I don’t remember any earth shaking revelations in the pre-interview portion of the classes. Newspaper ads were the least likely to result in a job, and networking with associates and friends held the greatest possibility of a job.
Resumes, Listen for the word “scan” with reference to your resume. Typically, they scan the resume so your experience and skills can be scored. These scores are reflections of the hits your resume had. Higher scores come from more hits which indicates that you better match the requirement they are loking for. I had two resumes, one for scanning and one for reading. The one I used where a scan was anticipated didn’t read well, but it had a ton of possible hits packed into it. (Fluent in Excel, Access, Crystal Reports, Robohelp, Visual Basic, SQL, Fox Pro, would be an example for a scanned resume, it reads like crap, but it is packed full of potential things an employer might look for in a database administrator). Once I got to the interview, I offered a “revised” resume.
I was warned about three types of questions that are favorites of HR departments, and how to correctly deal with them in the interview.
The What did you like about your previous job, and the negative of the same question. Obviously, you’ll have no problem there. Remember, the the negatives into positive statements in your answer, see example below.
The Self assessment questions. “What do you feel your poorest…”, or “what do you find hardest about…,.” Typically, an unprepared person blurts out something like, “I can never get to work on time”. Bad, Bad, Bad. The trick is to turn this into a positive. “I find that I can’t accept anything less than my absolute best, and I often end up laying awake at night thinking of ways improve……” THEN offer the answer to your problem… in the above example, you would continue with “but I’m working at better time management, and that seems to be the answer for me”.
Almost always, towards the end of the interview, the interviewer(s) will ask “Do you have any questions” The correct answer is yes, you do. Research the company beforehand. Ask questions that show you have an interest in the company that the interview may not have exposed. Ask two or so, then ask this the * big* questions.
What do you think best qualifies me for this job? Pay attention for
clues in the answer. Follow that question with this one.
What part of this job do you feel I am least qualified for?
After the answer you have a chance to redo the parts of the interview that did not go over well as you hoped. Correct any misconceptions and misunderstandings that may have occurred. Do this delicately.
These last two questions are hard to ask. I didn’t ask either of them for several interviews. Finally I felt comfortable enough to do so, and take my word for it, things changes – quick -, fast and in a hurry.
Write a thank you note to the interviewer a day later. Sounds corny I know, but
it works. Call back in about 3 to 4 days. This is in case they are having a tough
time deciding between you and another, you get the extra shot at it.
The secret to success with these questions is to PREPARE canned responses, and
PRACTICE until they are smooth, and do not appear as memory dumps to the interviewer.
Forget any nervousness you feel, this is a common denominator for the group. You are no more, nor any less nervous than the others
Remember this too . You only need ONE job. Keep this search in that context.
As soon as you have one, you can look for “The one”.
Don’t overlook temp agencies. Many lead to full time employment,
Good luck, — everything’s turning and nothing’s burning, so go fly it.
I’ll be watching for that “Good News” post from you shortly.
I also think that temp agencies are a great idea. My wife used to do this when she moved to a new place and got reasonable pay and a few permanent job offers. At places I’ve worked in the past, more receptionists that I can remember started temping and, if they were on the ball, ended up with very nice permanent jobs.
My story: In 1998, I was laid off from my first real job after having been at the company for 8 years. My skills as an engineer from that job were rather narrow and if I wanted to stay in the same industry, I would have had to move. I had a hell of a time getting another engineering job in town. After four months of telemarketing, I was finally able to get a place to hire me as a temp, part time, CAD drafter. A couple of months later, I was hired full time as a junior engineer and was able to quit the telemarketing job. Six months after that, I was a mid-level engineer and a project manager. Two years after I was laid off, I was back at the same salary as the date of the layoff.
The place that laid me off went under and so did the new place. I jumped to a new job and that place went down the tubes too after a couple of years. A year ago, I started my fourth job since leaving school. Guess what? Financial troubles and my whole department was canned.
This time I said the fuck with getting a job. I started a consulting company and work out of my house. So far it’s going great and I don’t intend to ever do W2 work again.
What I learned from all of this is that no matter how good things look, you always have to be looking for the next thing. You always have to keep your skills general enough so that you will be valuable to other places. Having good connections is equally important to having good skills. Don’t be afraid to go through your address book and let everyone know that you are looking.
Haj
Zigarre mentioned it, but I thought I’d repeat. There was a complaint in the thread above that some places hadn’t called back. Some places wait for you to call them back to check up, especially for lower level jobs that get a lot of applications. It’s used as a weeding tool. They say they reason that if you aren’t interested enough in the job to call back, then your performance will also lack enthusiasm.
Personally, I think it’s just a device to cut their work load.
:eek: Cutting and pasting can sure raise heck with continuity, and case, and agreement, and all things considered, seems to be a good way to create errors. Zig needs a do over here…. where is the waitress…
Thanks for writing this, Mr. Svinlesha. I’ve been reading this thread and holding my tongue, because – while I have no interest in indulging in schadenfreude – I’ve been wondering if Airman Doors current situation has given him some new insights on the flaws of the Republican philosophy. I mean, while I’ve been scraping for jobs before, it was never as bad as Airman Doors’ current situation, and even then I’ve already known that “stop taking handouts and just get a job” is a whole lotta hooey. I don’t want to imagine what he’s going through.
Anyway, Doors, while I may have disagreed with you over political matters before, I do hope things work out for you soon. Just remember that whatever doesn’t break you only serves to make you stronger…
Damn that “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy!
That painfully obvious joke aside, I know something of the pain you’re in. I got laid off a few years back and didn’t get anything else for almost a year. I didn’t have a SO or offspring to support but whatever the situation being out of work sucks.
Any thoughts of putting together some sort of small business on your own?
Airman not to be a wise ass but what are you qualified for? What is your training in? What are your job skills? The internet is a big place and somebody might read about your job skills that you are completely unaware of. Just a thought.