While it’s not nice, is it really accurate to say that calling someone a toilet whore or a piece of shit or a bitch is “going for the jugular” or “trying to damage the psyche” of the target? I think those posts, while mean, were probably pretty easily ignored. Sticks and stones, after all. In fact, such name-calling is de rigeur around here. You and QG have taunted people and called names in this very thread. This is why I say you’re being hyperbolic, and possibly quite hypocritical (look at how you’re treated RedFury right now, you fucking jackal).
In all honesty, there was very little in that thread that I thought was designed solely to harm Miz Grand. The name-calling was, definitely, but again, not really to be taken seriously. There were a few other posts over the line, but most of those have already been taken to task. I really don’t get what you’re still on about, SA.
So you find all of those names equivalent? You’d be as happy to be called any one of them? There’s no degree of ‘not that bad’ to ‘egregious’ in your perspective?
Not exactly, my frozen friend. I would prefer to think that I prick the hypocrisies of hypocritical pricks of the left, many of whom have been for decades deriding those of us on the right for behavior (usually grossly exaggerated) that they themselves are so quick to engage in. Having said that, not all lefties are hypocritical and not all lefties are pricks, so I don’t prick them…or at least not for being hypocritical pricks.
Wow, and you said I was being deliberately obtuse. Read for comprehension, moron. I said they were all not nice and all name-calling, something which you and SA are obviously not above doing. Does that make you both jackals? None of the nasty names I listed are psyche-wounding or going for the jugular. It’s just words. It’s not threats, it’s not a Cruise Missile deep to the soul. Not worth getting your granny panties all in a bunch over.
ETA: If you guys were upset over things in that thread that were meaningfully hurtful, with intent, with effects beyond the sticks and stones level of malice, then I’d agree with you. If you’re on about name calling, I think you should look to the beam in your own eye.
What exactly is a “toilet whore” exaclty? Someone who’s indescriminant in their use of public toilets? Gets paid to have a wee in the Bay? Will pee anywhere, anytime?
Seriously, if someone called me that I’d be:
a) confused, because it’s the stupidest made up insult I’ve ever heard
b) amused, because if someone is so stretched for insults that they have to make up stupid ones, well, that’s just sad
Seriously, if that’s what you’re so het up about QG, you really do need to stick to MPSIMS.
Funny, my boyfriend and I were just discussing it. He thinks it means a woman who has sex with toilets. I thought it was someone who has sex in a toilet. In any case, it’s a ridiculous insult, more likely to inspire a :rolleyes: or a chuckle than a nervous breakdown. Still not a nice thing to say, but it’s right up there with “sheepdip” and “buttpipe” as 3rd grade insults.
I wonder if Quiddity is now going to spank SA for being so meeeeeeeeean to RedFury and calling him hurtful, soul-rending names. Probably not, since she likes SA and not RF. And also because she’s a hypocrite who applies her moralizing only where she feels like it.
Part of what makes dialog with you so difficult is that you almost invariable misunderstand the point, and you see points that aren’t being made while at the same time completely missing the point that is. But I’ve already described my position on this issue and I’m not gonna go over it again.
Regarding Mindless Fury, there have been many heated exchanges between the two of us and he has called me every reprehensible thing his overly-emotional, occasionally alcohol-addled mind could think of. He came in here unprovoked, and with deliberate dishonesty accused me of behavior designed to cause me to be viewed with particular scorn and disdain on this largely (and rightfully, IMO) gay-friendly board. So, where he’s concerned the gloves are off.
And Google’s image search can pull up sites for it even when one is searching for something totally unrelated, or at least related in a sense that only a computer search-engine would put together.
You don’t read for comprehension either, or you’re like your buddy QG and being deliberately obtuse. I do get your point. You are allowed to call names and be a dick when it suits you. Other people who do it are jackals.
That’s your criteria for when name-calling is allowed. Maybe others think that if you are unrepentantly committing adultery and behaving the way Miz Grand did, that is an appropriate time to take the gloves off. I don’t see why you get to decide when it’s OK to call names and when it isn’t. It’s just as wrong when you do it as it is when others do it, if in fact it is wrong at all. Your double standard, already pointed out by stretch, is showing again.
I’m not trying to justify anything. I’m trying to find out where exactly your boundaries lie with regards to proper pit behavior. “Toilet whore” is far from the worst thing I’ve ever read in the pit and probably not even the worst thing in that thread. While that doesn’t mean that the phrase is acceptable in civilized society, it is far from being unacceptable pit language as this is the place for piles of vomited bile and all. It’s also a far cry from “inhumanity.” Lastly, you seem to be misunderstanding the purpose of the pit. This is rarely the place for an intervention style rational discussion of a persons faults (How you’ve missed that is beyond me). This is the place for discussions too heated for Great Debates, discussions of board policies and moderator actions, and simply venting or in your words, vomiting piles of bile. The overall purpose is not to inspire someone to change as much as it is to simply vent ones rage.
Translation: I know inhumanity when I see it.
Are there people that leap at the chance to say something mean here? Of course. The only difference is that I recognize that, within certain boundaries, that is exactly what the pit is for. As for damaging psyches, if you are going to let some words on a screen damage your psyche in a serious way then I think you need to separate yourself from the internet and seek professional help.
Ain’t it hilarious that I got accused of sexism, but in order to dismiss my point, QG used that most classic of sexist chestnuts, “Oh, you must be on your period!”? This thread is full of stuff like that.
For me, the difference is this–when the insults go toward behavior that happens in real life, I’m less inclined to feel that egregious name-calling is acceptable.
And the reason I feel that way is this:
If you couldn’t or wouldn’t say something to a person in real life about their real life behavior, why should you be able to say it in the Pit with no consequences? That seems contradictory.
For this reason, I didn’t join QG in her ‘be nicer to Liberal’ campaign. That was taking someone to task, whether deservedly or not, purely for their online behavior. There was nothing there that touched on Liberal’s real life.
But when people are commenting on real life, it seems to me that different standards apply. Some people are advocating that people learn things from these Pit experiences. But if this is the case, you’d probably want them to be closer to how real life works, and that’s not the case here.
I’ve noticed that some people on message boards think of their behavior online as interacting with people, just not face-to-face. And some people think of their behavior on message boards like they’re watching TV and yelling at the characters on a TV show. Since the characters on a TV show can’t get hurt, they reason that the people on the message board can’t get hurt either. Because of this diversity of purpose, taking advice on message boards is not always a good thing, unless you’re able to separate which people are playing by which rules.
so, Roo, when the doper pitted some one for griping at her for bouncing a check and many of us (myself included) told her in no uncertain terms what we thought about her behavior. we were wrong to do so? bullshit, MHO. and in the case mentioned, the doper in question apparently ** hadn’t** been told IRL that their behavior was reprehensible. but after a page or three here, came to understand that she was, indeed, in the wrong, and posted that she made good on the check (including the probable bank charges the recipient had incurred), appologized IRL, apparently learning.
in any event, I also believe that by posting your rl events, you invite comment.
Hey-- this is real life. It’s all real life. The fact is, we’re all strangers, so you have to assess how much you can allow yourself to be hurt by what strangers say. As for it being “acceptable,” the short answer is yes, it’s acceptable in the Pit. You have the choice not to read it if you find it personally unacceptable to your eyes. In the SDMB society, however, it IS acceptable, and that isn’t going to change.
If someone asked my opinion in real life, I’d give it to them. Miz Grand asked for opinions. As for what I said to her, I’d say the same to her to her face if she asked me in person, and if I had access to all the background info she shared. Would I call her a toilet whore? No, but I didn’t do that in the thread either. She, the Mods, and everyone else did have the opportunity to respond to the name-calling. The consequences for name-calling are the same on the SDMB as they are IRL. Name-calling is allowed face to face too, and all you have is the communal reaction to it to discourage or encourage it, right? So I’m not sure what you want. If you think it’s wrong, next time you see it, call people out on it. Alert a Mod. Pit the person. Beyond that, what else can or should be done?
There are lots of version of real life. Some people do call each other pieces of shit and toilet whores in real life. Maybe you live in a nicer world than I do, but I’ve seen it happen and worse. I also have to reiterate that insults are insults. If Liberal were hurt by the insults made towards him in those threads, would he be any more or less hurt by it because it was about his internet behavior rather than his “real life”?
That is certainly true. Some people do behave much worse on the internet than they would have the balls to behave IRL. But here’s how I think about it: Miz Grand got to hear what people would be saying, maybe not to her face, but certainly about her behind her back IRL if her whole story had gone public. In a way, it let her see exactly what a cross section of the world would think of her story, without having to find out by exposing herself to RL consequences. In that way, I hope it was a wake-up call as to the social acceptability of her life choices. Not pretty.
Well, like I said, you pays your money and you takes your chances. She made a choice to share a whole lot of personal, damning information here. She’s been around since 1999, so she certainly had the data to know how it could go. I can’t possibly assess her motives, though I wonder if she wanted to be soundly berated to help her conscience kick in. Maybe not, maybe she really did think everyone was going to give her tea and sympathy. In any case, I think it was a pretty accurate reflection of the wide spectrum of reactions to her behavior, some of which she would not be privy to IRL but which would have been said.
And this argument pops up. You act as if noone gets into a heated discussion or argument in real life. If you are going to take how people act in real life, you must take into account the discussion being had. It’s not as if this was some polite chat until someone burst in yelling “toilet whore.” This was, by all real world equivalents, a yelling screaming throwdown in which one could expect harsh words to be spoken.
I’m not denying that people behave differently online as they do in real life, but the pit is an entirely different circumstance from ones office or home (hopefully). Thusly my pointing out that a comment frowned upon in civilized society being held to a different standard in the pit. This is a place to yell, scream, insult (within boundaries), and generally throw a hissy fit.
