wring said pretty much EXACTLY what was in my head. Geez folks, don’t YOU remember ever being a bit attention-seeking in your teens? And how do we respond to attention-seekers? I’ll give you a hint: we DON’T reinforce their behaviour!
I remember being a bit like you JET, although not as extreme. You’ll grow out of it.
and waterj (and anyone else who may be interested), I’m guessing that the SN is a play on Pearl Jam’s Jeremy, a song about a boy that kills himself in class.
pan
Oh, that’s rich. I remember those civil comments, and I remember replying to many of them in a civil manner. Maybe I didn’t get a chance to reply to every single individual – I mean, jeez, we’re talking about a six-page thread here. So maybe you said something intelligent and thought-provoking that I just glossed over. That doesn’t mean I’m ignoring you, and even if it does, it certainly doesn’t mean that I’m ignoring EVERYONE.
Do a search on my nick, you’ll see that I’ve participated in many, many threads without being inflammatory. Nobody seems to have mentioned that. Not that I can blame them – it’s boring.
You wanna know what makes me tick? There’s an email address in my profile. Use it. Nobody else does.
Apparently, it doesn’t mean all that much. If it did, he wouldn’t be here, would he? Let’s summarize. We have someone who has made it his stated (as above) goal to “push buttons”. This is exactly the kind of behavior that the administration not only frowns on, but bans people for. Secondly, we have someone who is not only trying to get a rise out of others but is doing so in the most obnoxious, condescending, egotistical, arrogant, and absrasive manner possible. And yet he still lives on. Explain. I’ll certainly admit I haven’t read each of his posts, but if someone could show me a post in which he did not behave in the manner described above, I’d be much obliged. My suspicion is that no such post exists, and that each of his posts has been designed to piss people off. Doesn’t that fall under the Golden Rule of “don’t be a jerk”?
Kind of late for a warning, isn’t it?
Don’t you get it?
Nobody wants to make any special effort to delve into the mind of a psycho. And that’s what you have worked very hard at, making yourself appear to be a psycho.
If I were you, I’d change my name, start over, and try to be more discreet in the future. I know you’re not as nuts as others think you are, but like I said, nobody wants to look through your blustery, offensive mannerisms to get to the truth.
Or, you could just continue to antagonize everyone. In, which case, you’ll probably be banned. It’s up to you, man.
A fairly quick (took all of about 30 seconds – didn’t want to give the boards a heart attack) search brought up a lot of posts that should satisfy you. Personally, I like JET’s posts. Yes, sometimes the opinions he expresses, and the manner in which he expresses these opinions, can be fairly abrasive. But I don’t think that invalidates what he has to say or is reason for him to be banned.
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=62796
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=65887
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=66696
http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=69731
Also, I find it ironic that you, Monty, are commenting on another poster being a “jerk.” I find the tone of many of your posts to be gratuitously petulant.
Well, shitfuckANDpiss. This is what I get for knocking off yesterday and not checking out the boards. I missed the Great Jeremy Pit Pileon. Oh well, better late than never.
Okay. I’m seriously annoyed and I’m going to skip scrolling through the rest of the thread and jump directly to Post Reply, so apologies if somebody’s already said this.
First, I’d like to thank all the people who have so kindly demonstrated, in this thread and in the linked GD thread, that they have absolutely no sense of humor. In the future, I will make sure that all my posts to these people (and you know who you are 
) will be carefully screened for irony, sarcasm, and any trace of sardonic humor. You want your posts straight up, no twist. Okay, you got it. Buncha tightass pantywads. 
Second, I’d like to say that I have always enjoyed reading Jeremy’s posts. I don’t think he’s a troll, although I will admit I had my doubts at first. However, he has emerged as a real person, albeit somewhat loud at times. I frequently disagree with what he says, and with the decibel level at which he chooses to say it, but I can name off the top of my head at least a dozen other posters who strike me the same way, and none of them are currently the subject of an unwarranted multi-page Pit Pileon because of a single offhand sardonic remark.
And if I get done Submitting and it brings me to my post and I find that Lynn has banned him after all, then all I can say is, “So long, it was nice knowin’ ya.”
Humph. :mad:
I appreciate it. Perhaps I was too overbearing in my assessment; surely no one can submit offensive posts 100% of the time.
But while I will agree that his attitude does not invalidate his opinion, it seems to me there are two major rules in this massive board: Do not be a jerk and do not be a troll (or sock, or whichever). He has broken the first one, although that’s a matter of opinion. I do find it hard to believe that someone would think otherwise in this case, but it’s still a subjective argument. As for the second rule, he’s confessed to breaking that rule.
DNFTT, I thought. And here some are defending that kind of behavior.
Okay, good, he’s still here. And I see in my vexation I didn’t make it quite clear what I was saying.
If all you sarcasm-challenged people would go back and at least attempt to read his statement in the GD thread as “heavy sarcasm intended as a sharp commentary on the issue of gun control”, you’d see that this whole Pit thread is a complete waste of server time.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose *
Oh really? The boy himself might disagree:
Unless someone has a better definition, I thought a troll was one who pushed people’s buttons to get a response.
Whether you can or not is irrelevant, since this thread is not about other posters; it’s about one boy. And I hardly think it’s one remark; it’s an entire ongoing series of them, sardonic or not.
Too bad. On the other hand, I’ve also been termed “valuable and intelligent poster.” I’ll go with that appraisal over your limited experience with me.
Left something out.
BTW, Star, exactly when was the last time I delighted in the deaths of children? Oh, that’s right - NEVER!
I see a distinct difference there.
dantheman - we ALL push eachother’s buttons. In the course of a debate, I (and others) will frequently come at an opponent’s argument from a different point of view, changing the context in an attempt to show its absurdity. From the right viewpoint this can be seen purely as an attempt to push buttons. Of course those of us who AREN’T attention-seeking teenagers won’t CALL it that - we’ll call it rhetoric or debating tactics or context or reducto ad absurdum. Such “pushing of buttons” can have a valuable role in testing the boundaries of our beliefs. If our fundamental assumptions are never challenged then we’ll never be forced to face our axioms for what they are.
The acid test for a troll is not the pushing of buttons per se - it is the reasons for doing so and the willingness to engage having done so. I don’t think that JET qualifies as a troll on EITHER count.
pan
There really is a difference between pushing buttons to get a reaction and actual debating. If I began a thread (to choose an overstated, but still somewhat analgous, example) that said “All SDMB people are fucking nazi pigs!!!” would you consider it rhetoric/debating tactics or would you consider it “pushing buttons”?
Your answer, most likely, would be the latter. It has been obvious to at least some people from the beginning that this person has stated his views simply to piss people off, not to engage in debate with them. In fact, in most of his posts I do not see debate; I see taunting and bitchery, all designed not to gain insight from a different perspective but to gull us into reacting from our hearts rather than our minds. A clever individual? You bet. The behavior of an asshole? You bet, indeed. Therefore while I’ll agree with you that pushing one’s buttons is a time-honored debate tactic, it’s not applicable here, since debate (IMO) does not seem to be this child’s impetus.
You seemed to have missed my point. I found it ironic that you would feel confident enough to comment on any poster being a jerk, not just JET. So whether or not you delight in the deaths of Japanese children is irrelevant.
And I never claimed that you were not either ‘valuable’ or ‘intelligent.’ I find your posts to be a lot like JET’s…they’re usually worth the effort of filtering out the caustic and inflammatory posts to get to the good ones.
dantheman - your illustration neatly encapsulates for me the point I was trying to make about how trolling is more than merely “pushing buttons”. Your example is a blatent troll. I do not think that JET remotely falls into this category. I think that his button pushing makes us evaluate our own humanity. I do regret, however, that he does this in a tediously childish manner.
My original point though, which may understandably have been missed, was that you cannot in my opinion hang him with his own words on this one. It’s just a matter of semantics.
pan
Ok, so it’s a question of semantics. If I understand you, you mean that the quote I used is too vague (with multiple meanings) to be effective in labeling him as a troll or as something else. Ok, point taken.
However, I do not think that his button pushing is being done for the purpose of evaluating our own humanity; I think he’s doing it to agitate, not to educate. Also, if he is simply trying to make us “evaluate our own humanity”, that would be fine if he were trying to actually prove a point or to educate us. But if he is just trying to give us all a kick in the cojones, that’s not exactly a solid contribution to this board at all.
Have you noticed that this has taken on more of a debate than a bitchfest?
Well, dan, the mere fact that JET’s contribution is up for debate shows that there must be some substance there. And even if he is just yanking chains, it doesn’t mean that we can’t turn that sow’s ear into a silk purse.
And I’m glad it’s a debate and not a bitchfest. Personally I always do my best to encourage threads to head that way and the presence here of some high caliber posters means that it was firmly in “debate” mode anyway. Anyway, if someone is seeking attention and enjoying seeing people get all riled up, how much better is it to set the example of rational debate rather than screaming hissy-fits? We all have to learn the way to behave by seeing it somewhere.
pan
Oops - I forgot to also say that dan, you have taken my point correctly about the semantics.
I thank yaw.
pan
It certainly does not mean that, and of course it’s better to have a rational debate than an irrational screaming match. But that’s not the only issue here. Setting a good example is wonderful, but do you really think doing to will prevent the person from further espousing “rile 'em up” ideals? I’m not so sure it would.
Besides, forgive me for being callous, but I don’t consider myself or anyone else here in charge of how other people behave. If someone is behaving badly and does not seem to want to engage in a serious dialog (rather than a one-sided, chest-pounding pissing contest), then why should I put forth the effort to “convert” him or her into a responsible poster? To make the board a better place? Ok, fair enough. But this was tried before, at least to some extent. There are some people who just aren’t worth the effort because they refuse to put any forth themselves and wish only to propagate their own agenda.
It’s called “civilization.” McVeigh cooked because he lacked sentiment for “abstract” people he didn’t know. If he had even feigned regret at the loss of life he caused instead of writing it off as “collateral damage” he’d still be alive.
Otherwise, I sorta agree with you. Except that JET is acting in a trollish manner by pushing our buttons on purpose. Okay, I’ll admit to doing that myself, but he does it most of the time. And far more sensitive buttons, without indication that he is kidding. Not allowed.