Karen Hughes Makes My Skin Crawl

The BBQ Pit
21

No.

No!.

This witchhunt is ugly, viscous and degrading. Stoidela didn’t mention Janet Reno; I did. And, read in context, it was an apparently futile appeal to sense, restraint, courtesy and intelligence.

I don’t give a flying, technicolor whoop in hell about anyone’s personal political bias. But I take a very personal, gut-deep, politically humane offense to easy hate and easy answers.

Homer–don’t misuse or misquote my words against anyone else, no matter their political beliefs. Mob rule is ugly as hell. I will not be a party to it, even by imputation.

Frankly this whole election mess has been a discouraging exposure of tribal politics.

Veb

22

Yeah, actually, I am. Although this thread isn’t really about that. Or hell, maybe it is.

But when Bush was announced the winner for that one hour, I spent it sobbing as hard and uncontrollably as if my mom had just died.

I don’t always feel this strongly about politics…usually it is just an intellectual exercise. But this one has wrecked me, I admit. The last 11 days have been rather surreal, to say the least. Meeting Mr. Winkle was the first thing I’ve done in all that time that wasn’t election-tainted.

<shrug> Shit happens.

But hey… I’m feeling good. I’ve been touched by Him, envy me!

stoid

23

Stoidela, I don’t know why this election is pissing you off so bad, as you seem to be in an economic position (by your own admission) where your life won’t really be affected at all by the results; but you give off an underlying air of “everyone poorer than me is fucked if Bush wins”

From what I can gather from your multiple threads regarding the election, I have not been able to ascertain that you actively support any charitable liberal causes that might be in danger of funding/help/whatever being cut off by a Republican administration. (I may be wrong, and welcome any corrections, but it’s hard to keep up with all of your threads)

Of course, you don’t need a reason. I am just curious about your vitriolic rhetoric against conservatives, and no, your GD threads don’t really bring it out.

Re: your statement "She radiates (“smug bitch with zero tolerance”)
To me, you seem to “radiate” in some respects, that same attitude with regard to anybody who disagrees with you.

Karen Hughes is just doing her job, as is Bill Daley and every other partisan shill from either side, as I am sure you are. :slight_smile:

24

I don’t think it’s even “pissing me off” really. It’s freaking me out. I’m scared of Dubya.

Regarding the idea that it will not affect me…first of all, my politics are not about what affects ME. I am perfectly willing to have my own personal existance disrupted, have less money in my pocket, whatever, if it also means that the things I care about in this world are protected, promoted, supported. So of course, as with all things, it is “about me” in the sense that it is about what I care about, but not about my personal comforts, desires, etc.

Secondly, what I care most passionately about, what I give money (and some time, but I barely give time to my own mother, that’ s a whol nother topic) to, is the environment and non-human life on this planet. I think the self-centered nature of the human race sucks, and our rampant obliteration of everything that isn’t made by us is horrible. Additionally, this attitude is fucking ourselves. We are going to turn around one day, and not only will the earth be a barren wasteland, but we will be in deep shit of our own making and no doubt we will be sitting around pissing and moaning about what we SHOULD have done way back when.

No doubt we will find a way to keep ourselves going. But the other species that share this planet with us will not be so lucky. And frankly, I find that idea to be the greatest crime ever, worse than any serial killer or mass murderer or war. One human life, ten thousand human lives…all the same to me in this context. So fucking what? There’s plenty more. But he planet itself? Whole species? Whole CATEGORIES of species??? So far as we know, Earth is IT…the only place, in a universe so vast we cannot begin to comprehend it with our puny little minds we think so much of, that contains life. And what an amazing and extraordinarily rich variety of life! But hey…we want to make paper, eat burgers, drive cars… that’s MUCH more important, isn’t it? What WE want, our comfort, out pleasure, our ease…that’s worth destroying everything else over, isn’t it?

There is no way to test me on this, but I concluded some years back that there was nothing I was willing to die for. (I don’t have kids or I might feel differently.) Except, if it came down to it, and my death would save the natural environment and the non-human life on this planet from our selfish destruction, I could die for that. I believe I could.

But we are getting off into an entirely different topic, aren’t we?

All this to say, that while I never liked Dubya, when he expressed that he thought the right thing to do for oil was to go up and start trashing the Alaskan wilderness preserve…well, he sealed his fate with this American. That he could even THINK that makes me despise him.

And I guess that makes it pretty obvious why I like Al. The environment is his pet issue.

Anyway…I hijacked myown thread, didn’t I? I suppose if anyone wants to discuss this we should start a thread for it. But hey… not me! I think I heard around here somewhere that if another thread was started that had my name as topic starter, well, there’d be a lynching of some sort.

Stoid

25

Would you like us to critically examine Mr. Gore’s record on the environment?

Shall we start the endangered black-footed ferret? Whoops! Wiped out 4 mating pairs when he had a dry riverbed flooded for a photo-op.

How 'bout the WTI toxic waste burner in East Liverpool, Ohio? Gore slammed Bush in 1992 for wanting to approve burning permits. He said the Clinton/Gore administration wouldn’t approve them. And then went ahead and approved the permits anyway in Oct of 1993.

How 'bout the family ties to Occidental Petroleum? Maybe this explains the next tidbit.

How 'bout Gore’s recent stance against using nuclear power and hydro-electric sources to reduce greenhouse emmissions? Apparently, Gore thinks we should continue to burn more fossil fuels.

Whoops again! The government’s current environmental policies are so effective, the fed is now listing the Atlantic Salmon as an endangered species in Maine.

Specifically, to the Artic National Wildlife Refuge, Gore opposes oil drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge because he deems the threat to land and wildlife as too great. However, environmentalists made the same argument more than 20 years ago about the trans-Alaska oil pipeline and drilling in the small area that now produces oil near Prudhoe Bay. But in the years since, every claim about how the land and animals would suffer has proven false.

I can go on (and on and on) if you wish …

26

Stoid,

Dubya scares me too. Although your posts lately are probably giving yourself a worse reputaion on the boards, I haven’t really commented. Until now.

This is one thing that really irks me. Just because you ( not just you, a lot of people) are in the pit, does not mean that you can just say what you want, and if called claim, this is the pit. Ignorance is fought on many levels. hell, even MPSIMS can be an ignorance stomper. Hell, because of Ayesha’s thread about Hep C in Mpsims, I learned a bit more about it. The current thread in the Pit about NHS, I read up on European countries medical plans. I know know a little more about it. Please could people stop thinking that just because the forum is not called Great Debates or General Questions, dosen’t mean that the same general etiquette applies(See, I looked up the spelling of etiquette, ignorance fought.)

27

Hey, I never said he was perfect. I doubt anyone who stands a chance of really being elected could be. But he’s a thousand times better than Dubya, and I think he’ll be better than Clinton. (Let’s keep in mind, when we talk about what Gore did or didn’t do, that he had zero real power under Clinton, just like all VP’s. As any Republican will tell you, Gore is much more liberal overall than Clinton)

28

Whatever my original posts that drove people insane might have been, my reputation now lives on completely separate from me or anything I say. I no longer feel there is any connection between me and the reputation on these boards that has my name on it. It is a beast of someone else’s invention, and has a life of its own.

I agree wholeheartedly. Well, perhaps not completely…after all, it is apparant that they people can and do say just about anything they want, no matter how nasty, scurrilous, and even untrue. It’s just that doing so in the Pit doesn’t excuse it or make it any less shameful.

stoid

29

No. When you declare conservatives to be untrustworthy across the board, you are going to piss some people off. Since your argument was an illogical inference (selfish = not to be trusted) drawn from a false premise (conservative ideology is selfish), you rightly earned a reputation as someone who attempts to rationalize purely emotional reactions. Ten thousand threads about how Gore is being robbed his rightful claim to the Presidency, most of which generally tended to be rather exaggerated claims, certainly didn’t help.

Your responses about how your generalizations about southerners were OK because they weren’t targeted at an “oppressed group” simply confirmed for me that you do not generally think of people as individuals, but as groups. And of course, a completely gratuitous thread about how ugly Karen Hughes is not exactly going to paint you as an even minded person capable of transcending partisan viewpoints.

Simply put, there are good reasons that you have drawn criticism from all sides. Mainly, I would attribute it to attempting to use logical arguments to uphold things you believe at a simply emotional level. Also, for bombarding us with far too many threads of it. If you simply believe deep down in your heart that conservatives are inherently untrustworthy, that is your business. When you try to debate such viewpoints without first examining your own biases, people will call you on it, and form opinions about you.

In summation, from what I can tell, there are many here who have formed a negative opinion of you entirely due to your actions and statements. Among these people, it will simply take a bit of time seeing you post rationally and with judgement less obviously clouded by emotion to erase any long-lasting negative feelings. To say that your reputation here is beyond your control is, frankly, somewhat insulting for a group of people as bright and fair as most of the SDMB population. Then there are a few partisans on the other side who aren’t going to really like you no matter what. But that’s life.

30

since I think that most of your characterization is offbase, like most of the characterization thus far has been, I don’t reallys ee a reason to back off of my statement.

For instance…re-read this thread. It is NOT about how ugly Karen Hughes is. Read the OP, and then my response to people jumping to that conclusion.

Drawing criticism is fine, and I probably deserve it in many cases. What I have received around here goes way beyond mere criticism and into a realm that defies good sense, not to mention good taste.

Not that I’m complaining about it. I’m just not owning it.
Stoid

31

Really? I could have sworn you said

in the OP. And incase this was meant to inspire political debate

Stoid, you can’t disassociate yourself from your words. This board is based completely on what you say. For all we know, Uncle Beer could be a longhaired Woodstock throwback smoking pot while he posts and listens to Barbera Streissand cd’s. but on the board, he comes across as a rabid gun loving Bush-luvin’ Good ole Boy :wink:

Your word is your honour on this board Stoid.

32

How do you measure that?

33

I accept that. As long as the word that is my honour is, in fact, mine, and it is ALL my words.

In this particular case, yes, I used the term “unattractive”, which I do find her, for reasons other than her essential appearance. I also used that term in conjuntion with “irritating”

And this is the second time I’ve had to point that out.

You can pick me apart for the things I say, but only if they are complete and in context.

stoid

34

I agree with Stoid’s assessment of Karen Hughes. She has tremendous political skill and has ran a near-perfect campaign in the service of, for all intents and purposes, a non-candidate. She has the incredible knack of shutting Dubya up right before he says something stupid. I have listened to more press conferences than I can count on my fingers and toes and I bow before her skill.

But I dislike her tremendously. To me, she wears a certain meanness that I find uncomfortable. I also think her tactics have been extremely heavy-handed and borderline illegal. Anybody remember the press mail fiasco a month or so ago? The blame for that one falls squarely on KH’s shoulders. She even admitted giving the order not to pass on press mail to the Bush campaign’s press contingent.

And UncleBeer, your criticisms of Al Gore’s environmental record in office are extremely disingenuous. Many people, including but not limited to conservatives, refuse to give Gore any credit for America’s current prosperity. However, these same people often have no problem pointing the finger at Gore for the administration’s environmental lapses. It is extremely illogical to pass the blame but not give credit where it is due. If the VP didn’t have anything to do with the economy, how could he possibly have fucked up the environment single-handedly?

MR

35

to my reputation, and how it has taken on a life of its own which now has nothing to do with me, I direct anyone who is interested to my newest thread in GD on the SC ruling, and the first response to my OP, which is quite remarkable.

stoid

36

Maeglin: You have it exactly right, both about Karen and about Unclebeer’s rip on Al.

<high five>

stoid

37

Whoa, Veb, sorry you took it the wrong way. I didn’t even see your comment about Ms. Reno. I in no way attempted to slander you or whatnot. Hell, it doesn’t really matter to me what Stoid wants to say about someone, thats her business. I was just… making a comment… and then tying her name and posting style into an old Dominoes ad. Sorry if it was misconstrued.

–Tim