Keeping Your Kid Off the Couch

In My Humble Opinion
21

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
One thing that was tough for me to learn (but I did eventually) was that I had an initial tendency to say “No” if I was asked for something that I had not anticipated or that was inconsistent with my inclination. Much healthier for all to consider each request/opinion on its own merits.
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Daddy?

Nice to know there’s folks out there who recognize this in themselves and try to work it out :slight_smile: Dad would sometimes even say “no” before we’d even gone beyond “can I,” it was one of his least-lovely traits.

To the OP, I’ve babysat or “helped the babysitter with” more kids than I’d like to count and one of the things that could be harder for some of us old kids was learning exactly how far we could go. One of my co-sitters liked being in big groups because then Someone Else got to deal with his sister’s drop-of-a-hat crying (she just had weak ducts or something, I swear - she cried when she was sad and bawled when she was happy). If the babysitter’s kids aren’t recognizing when to stop, she needs to know it. So I think it’s perfectly fine that you talked about it with her.

And I think you need some herbal tea. You’re overthinking it, which is a normal part of parenting. sends herbal through CD slot

22

I was thinking about this thread on my way to the train yesterday. I thought that while some folks certainly “need” therapy due to emotional impairments/trauma/etc., IMO&E at least a fair share of folk in therapy are there because they desire/need someone to talk to. Someone who will listen without being entirely judgmental/critical, and as needed guide the discussion in positive directions allowing for growth.

ISTM that if a parent places a priority on creating a family environment where family members feel free to openly communicate with each other, it might well be effective in keeping at least kids who grow into the latter category “off the couch.”

IMO one significant problem with how people style their lives these days is that they commit themselves to an extent that they are not “there” for their kids - not just in the case of emergencies, but to hear them prattle on about whatever minutiae occurred during their day and explain the emotions they felt - and to return the favor, letting the kids know you value their opinions concerning what is of importance to you. When they express a desire/preference, ask them to explain why. And when you lay down the law, you don’t need to defend your decision, but it is generally helpful if you can provide at least a succinct reasoning. And yes, on occasion “Because I said so” can be sufficient explanation at the moment.

Encouraging this type of communication is one reason I strongly favor family dinners to whatever extent possible. And when I am reading a book and a kid wants to talk, I put down the book or turn off the TV - even if I really would rather read/watch. There will be plenty of time to read/watch TV when the kids are grown and gone.

23

::sniff:: That’s so sweet, Dinsdale.

I agree, too; my experience isn’t as extensive as your, but I’m already seeing that “Quality Time” is misleading. Yes, it’s important to have fun and educational experiences. But TIME. That’s what they need. Just time.

As Bill Cosby said, “Attention must be paid.”
Nava, excellent point, thanks!

24

[QUOTE=fessie]
::sniff:: That’s so sweet, Dinsdale.

[/QUOTE]

Yeah - ask my wife. I’m a regular fucking sweetheart! :stuck_out_tongue:

25

cue Cats in the Cradle Yup yup.

26

[QUOTE=fessie]

I agree, too; my experience isn’t as extensive as your, but I’m already seeing that “Quality Time” is misleading. Yes, it’s important to have fun and educational experiences. But TIME. That’s what they need. Just time.

As Bill Cosby said, “Attention must be paid.”

[/QUOTE]
I agree with this–I think a large part of being a parent is just being available most of the time. You don’t know when your kid is going to want to talk about something important, and he’s never going to want to talk about something important if you haven’t already spent years listening to endless prattle about Star Wars or last night’s dream or something. You can’t force Quality Time; that’s trying to get your kid to fit into a nice little slot in your busy calendar. Kids don’t do that.

But all those years of brushing hair, changing diapers, fixing lunches, all that mundane stuff–it’s all time when your child absorbs the knowledge that you’re there, you love him. and you’re connecting and attaching to each other, forming the bonds that will help to keep you close later on.

Not that fun, educational things aren’t important or good to do, but all that mundane time is the bedrock, the part you can’t get rid of.

27

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
Yeah - ask my wife. I’m a regular fucking sweetheart! :stuck_out_tongue:
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::smackfish:: You’ve chosen and chiseled that situation, hon. :wink:
I could say a LOT of the same things about my marriage.
I chose it, too.
That’s another issue - I think it’s a lot easier to be a good parent than a good spouse.
Opinions?

28

[QUOTE=fessie]

That’s another issue - I think it’s a lot easier to be a good parent than a good spouse.
Opinions?
[/QUOTE]

I think in many ways having kids makes it harder to be a good spouse. To some respects it emphasizes the efficient teamwork aspect of the relationship, while potentially risking the sensitive, loving, emotional supporter aspect. Give you a common goal - at times a common foe! But also takes away time/energy to focus on each other.

29

I’m not a parent, but I do have parents, and was for a while in therapy. My (probably worthless advice):

  1. Deal with yourself before you have kids. If you’re struggling with emotional problems, don’t have kids. If you have kids and something happens and you start developing problems, admit it and deal with it as fast as humanly possible. Yes, your kids see the problem and yes it will have an impact on them.
  2. Listen to your kids if they want to talk. Don’t force them to talk, to you or anyone else. Doubly so in the teen years. If you think your kid needs therapy and they say, no, I’m fine, I can work through this on my own, and it’s not a life-threatening situation, don’t force them to go to the shrink.
    2a. For the love of everything that is good in the world, stay far, far away from religion as a ‘cure’. “Therapist or clergy” is not a choice you should be forcing your kids to make.

In sum - if you’re crazy and/or you treat your kid like they’re crazy, they’ll very possibly turn out at least thinking that they’re crazy.

30

[QUOTE=fessie]

That’s another issue - I think it’s a lot easier to be a good parent than a good spouse.
Opinions?
[/QUOTE]
I think I find the parenting part harder. So I suppose it will vary.

31

[QUOTE=Trunk]
I don’t know shit-all about you, but the fact that you even think this probably indicates that your kid is going to wind up in therapy.

My mindset tends to be, “what kind of completely fucked up shit do you have to do to a kid that makes him wind up in therapy.”

Do you know that there are large segments of society that consider “therapy” a load of fucking useless hogwash? That it’s not ever an option because it’s bullshit? That if you’re in therapy, it’s already too late?

I’m not, nor will I ever be, in therapy.

None of my immediate family ever was, currently is, or ever will be. I guarantee you.

My wife is not, never has been, and never will be.

None of my friends are.

But, the people I know who do therapy (like my stupid crazy neighbor who became an alcoholic because his dog died :rolleyes: )-- their family does therapy, their friends do therapy. If “therapy” is something you consider a natural thing to do, your kids will wind up in therapy. It’s what they know. You didn’t teach them to scoff at it.
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Huh? Are you serious? Therapy isn’t JUST for people who are alcoholic or abusive, or were molested when they were kids. All sorts of people need therapy for all sorts of things, and there is absolutely no shame in this.

I had about happiest childhood one could imagine, and I don’t take antidepressants or medication, I’m not addicted to anything… I was in therapy for a little while because my girlfriend cheated on me with my best friend. I had a bit of a hard time dealing with it, but that’s not why I chose to go. I went because that 1 situation made it obvious to me that I was making some not-so-smart decisions in my life, like choosing a girlfriend who would do that, a best friend who would do that, and also how I could be so blind to it going on right in front of my face (but also behind my back, but whatever). I was a doormat, and I had to take some responsibility to not blame them entirely, but recognize MY mistakes that had put me in that situation. And believe me, I’d made some.

My friends and family were supportive of me, but also biased. Their helpful suggestions included things like “you did nothing wrong!” Well, I had. I needed to take some control and STOP being a victim. It was very hard for me to do with friends and family who seemed to want to keep making me a victim. I recognized that I’d been a victim for a lot of my life, allowing things to happen around me rather than making them happen for me.

Talking to an unbiased 3rd party for a couple months helped me immeasurably. This stranger knew nothing about me except what I told him, which really helped him form an honest opinion about who I was, why I made the decisions I made, and most importantly, helped me realize I needed to stop being such a passive observer of my life, take control, steer it where I wanted it to go, and LIVE life rather than just watch it take place around me.

This wasn’t a failure on my parent’s behalf. I’m not sure why I was the way I was for so long, and my therapist also helped me realize that none of that mattered as long as I was determined to change it.

Even the most well-adjusted people (I like to think I’m one of those…) can benefit from a little bit of reflection with an educated 3rd party who is interested in making their lives better. There is no shame in going to therapy. I recommend it to everyone.

32

[QUOTE=wasson]
My friends and family were supportive of me, but also biased. Their helpful suggestions included things like “you did nothing wrong!”
[/QUOTE]

Believe me, we never have to worry about receiving this type of advice in MY family! :smiley:

While I probably agree with the first sentence above, I’m not sure I’d agree with what impresses me as your recommendation for universal therapy. One of my biggest difficulties with therapy is that it is quite expensive in terms of time and money. So I don’t know that I’d recommend such expenditures for someone who perceived no problems. Or, if your problems are related to perceived time and money pressures, adding another expenditure/committment into the mix might not be the optimal approach.

Moreover, therapy ain’t a quick fix. In most cases it takes someone a while to fuck themselves up, and can take at least as long to straighten themselves out. As you observe, going in a therapist knows nothing about you and you need to bring them up to speed. And not all therapists are equal. You can run up a sizeable bill before you figure out whether even a highly recommended therapist has much of value to offer you.

33

Why do I keep thinking about Dennis Leary?

34

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
While I probably agree with the first sentence above, I’m not sure I’d agree with what impresses me as your recommendation for universal therapy. One of my biggest difficulties with therapy is that it is quite expensive in terms of time and money. So I don’t know that I’d recommend such expenditures for someone who perceived no problems. Or, if your problems are related to perceived time and money pressures, adding another expenditure/committment into the mix might not be the optimal approach.
[/quote]

Sorry, I didn’t mean I recommended it to every person walking the planet… I meant that I recommend it for everyone that is unhappy/anxious/indecisive, or otherwise has issues with themselves they are having a hard time fixing. If you’re feeling 100% happy and healthy, yeah, you’re obviously not a good candidate for therapy.

Obviously it’s not a quick fix, but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing. We’re talking about improving one’s life here… to me, that’s worth the time and money. You could replace “therapist” with “mechanic” in your paragraph above and it would still make sense, but most people would agree that if there’s something wrong with your car you get it fixed. Why this philosophy doesn’t carry over into therapy is beyond me… it’s a bigger priority, to me, to fix my life than it is to fix my car.

Therapy is often covered by insurance, and if you have no insurance, you can often get it for free.

35

[QUOTE=wasson]
Even the most well-adjusted people (I like to think I’m one of those…) can benefit from a little bit of reflection with an educated 3rd party who is interested in making their lives better. There is no shame in going to therapy. I recommend it to everyone.
[/QUOTE]
The OP was pretty much asking “what, if anything, can I do to keep the kids out of therapy?”

I told her: don’t act like therapy is a solution.

Just because it helped you, doesn’t mean you needed it.

There’s an implied value judgment from THE ORIGINAL POST in the asking of the question “how do you keep them off the couch?”

She’s acting like there are behaviors parents do to kids that either put them in, or keep them out of, therapy.

You want to keep the kid out of therapy? Then don’t teach him it’s a good option when his girlfriend breaks up with him.

And, if you DO think it’s a good option for someone to seek therapy after a break-up, then don’t ask the friggin question in the first place, because everyone is going to experience a shitty time in their life. The question is whether you seek therapy. The question is not “what can I do to keep them off the couch.”

36

[QUOTE=Trunk]
You want to keep the kid out of therapy? Then don’t teach him it’s a good option when his girlfriend breaks up with him.
[/QUOTE]

I didn’t go to therapy because my girlfriend broke up with me (in fact, I broke up with her). I went because that 1 bad experience in my life made me realize that other bad experiences were going to keep popping up if I didn’t take stock in my life, re-evaluate, and make better choices for myself. Did I need therapy to help me do that? Maybe, maybe not… but it worked and there is no shame in what I did.

You are the one that is implying that people who go to therapy are losers, and I would disagree with that completely. Therapy is 1 way in which people can improve their lives. It’s not the only way, and I’m not saying it is. But to deny that it is a solution (one of many) is a really naive viewpoint. Assuming that only severely fucked up people utilize therapy is also pretty close-minded.

So the question is “what, if anything, can I do to keep the kids out of therapy?”. I guess my answer is “if your kid has something wrong that can be fixed by a little therapy, why are you trying so hard to avoid it?”

Or maybe my answer should be “go to therapy yourself so you can learn to make better decisions and have an unbiased 3rd party helping you be a better person and a better influence for your children.”

37

Oh, dear.

No - I think therapy is a MARVELOUS solution to problems. Much better than drinking, drugs, gambling, serial relationships, serial jobs, etc.

My goal, my question, was how do I avoid making them crazy.

38

Yeah, I thought the ‘therapy’ line was facetious. Guess I was right. It’s a joke.

I don’t think fessie really wanted a thread of hijacks about the pros and cons of therapy.

39

[QUOTE=fessie]
My goal, my question, was how do I avoid making them crazy.
[/QUOTE]

Mmm…put them up for adoption so someone else can make them crazy? :stuck_out_tongue:

Face it: we’re all a little crazy. We just do the best we can to not make the same mistakes our own parents made. We just make mostly new ones, instead.

40

Yeah, it’s been a little difficult to hold an actual discussion about what fessie wanted to talk about.

I’m curious as to why people might find one job easier than another. My kids are a lot more work, I think. I find parenting to be kind of terrifying, in terms of physical safety. Though most of the time I’m not worrying about that, it still takes huge amounts of attention and time, and really–left to myself I’d be doing other, more hermity things. It’s good for me, but I do get pretty tired and a lot of it doesn’t come naturally to me. I love my kids more than life, obviously, but they’re not easy and they’re not even teenagers yet! :eek:

My husband, OTOH, is my refuge. Hanging out with him is my lifeline. Not that we never disagree, but it’s not that often.