Canada’s senate wants the government to pass legislation to effectively ban spanking.
Is this within the jurisdiction of governments?
Do you believe spanking should be abolished?
Me, no and no.
My daughter is 9 now, and hasn’t required a spank in a couple of years. My son is almost 8 and occasionally I do still give him a smack or two. I admit it. I’m a beast. Of course I’m not talking about a beating here. I’m talking about me repeatedly asking or telling him to do something (or not do something) and then to make sure he knows I wasn’t just talking to the walls, I spank. He has fair warning. He knows the repercussions. It doesn’t happen very often these days, maybe once every couple of months, and I’m hoping very shortly it won’t happen at all, but I’m the boss, damn it! Not him. And he has to know that.
I enjoy being a companion and a friend, but first and foremost I’m the parent here! I’m the one in control, not him. And I may as well add, this is an immediate and constructive way (in my opinion) of correcting behaviour. Sure, time-outs and groundings are other ways, but I believe kids need to know who the boss is.
I’m only 22 and as such am yet to have kids, but I feel like as long as it’s not done too excessively, that spanking can be effective. Hell, I feel like my dad probably should have whacked me a few more times than he did while I was growing up (as it was I probably got hit more than ten times, but fewer than 20). I suppose it also depends on how my SO will feel about the subject when it comes up.
I don’t spank kids myself*, but I also never say never. I don’t think it should be legislated, no, and I don’t think it should be abolished. I’m not an absolute pacifist - I think there are times when force is the best option. (I also don’t think I should get charged with assault for kneeing some threatening asshole in a bar, so at least I’m consistent.) But I’ve just found for my kids and the kids under my care that other options work, so there’s not been a need to spank.
I was spanked myself, and don’t think it did any long term harm.
*Nope, once I did, that’s right. It was my 2 year old son running into traffic from our yard. I did the grab his arm in one hand, swing him around to safety and simultaneously whack his diapered bottom move. So if that’s spanking under the proposed regulation, I spanked once.
My daughter is 19 months old. She’s got the hang of no, but it doesn’t yet modify her behavior (except for her to go do the “no” thing where I can’t see her)
I’m trying to teach her not to grab things she shouldn’t be grabbing. I tell her no, redirect her, she tries again, redirect…etc…The other day, I kept my routine, she kept hers. I finally took her hand and patted it and said “No, No, NO!”
The next day, she was being grabby again, I said “No, no bug!” She took one hand and patted the other one and said “No!”
I have a self-spanking child. I thought it was hilarious. She is so dramatic when you tell her no, she does NOT like it at all. The full body collapses, head on the floor in utter dispair.
I hope I am able to come up with good enough parenting techniques to not have to spank, and seriously, I pat her hand. I hope that’s as bad as it gets.
tabula rasa my ass. This kid has been willful since conception.
I can only speak as a guy with no kids who was spanked. By the way, I’m curious, are there any dopers here that never got a spanking? I have no idea about this. What’s it like in other cultures?
Well I got spanked by both my parents, and I don’t really feel that they did anything wrong. On the other hand, I can’t see myself feeling comfortable spanking my kids either. I don’t think it should be outlawed, either. It’s hard to say, really.
I was spanked (rarely, the last time I was spanked I was 9 or 10) and I do give my son a smack on the butt if he needs it (bare hand, one light smack like the kind I give mosquitos on my arms) to get his attention. Better than me standing there shireking like a harpy or trying to hold onto a strong wriggly boy who won’t listen. It startles him enough to give me the time to get a good hold and look him in the eye, or take him to time out on the stairs.
Some kids just need it at times, some more than others. I don’t advocate wailing on the kid, but I see no harm with a smack. I know I needed it at times myself.
ETA: I also should add, I think of it as last resort to get his attention, not the first thing I do.
I think it’s ridiculous to ban spanking. Is spanking child abuse? If so, then it’s already illegal; people who beat their children are criminals. If not, then it should be left up to the parents’ discretion. A swat is hardly in the same league as a beating.
I could rant for a while about nanny states and reducing us all to children, as well as a lot of other stuff, but I’ll spare you. You’re welcome.
I dunno. I see the children of parents who don’t spank and am horrified. One woman here at work D told me that her mother couldn’t go out the day before because D’s son refused to change from pajamas into regular clothes. I can’t even imagine. My mom woulda spanked my butt and put some clothes on me.
Does that mean no-spanking doesn’t work? Well, in this case clearly the child runs the house. But that doesn’t mean that other methods wouldn’t be effective.
I dont’ have kids, so I guess I shouldn’t decide, but if I did, I would answer your questions: no and no.
The Offspring was a generally well behaved kid but he did get a few swats to the diaper when I really needed to make a point clear and non-negotiable. I preferred to talk to him about his transgressions. I know it worked because one day I saw him do a ‘no-no’ and he slumped his shoulders and said, “Oh, OFF-spring!” in a perfect imitation of me.
Generally I don’t think spanking is a good idea because the severity can ratchet up with the anger of the parent and that always goes badly. I feel you should have a good open realtionship with your child that let’s them know why you are angry and why what they’ve done is a Bad Thing. HOWEVER, I have seen and heard a few little brats that needed a heavy duty beating but it’s because they did not have the realtionship with their kid that might have negated the behavior. I have a neighbor now that has a child we call ‘Screamie’ because he does all the time. Having watched the two of them I hold the mom responsible.
I am the youngest of five (all girls, if it matters). I know that a couple of my older sisters got spanked at least a couple of times, but I never did. Probably because my mother was a psychotic bitch, and I was way terrified of what she could reduce me to even without touching me! Also, I’m just naturally a pretty well-behaved person.
I have three kids, ages 19 (almost 20), 16, and 7. The thing we’ve spanked for most frequently is lying. My oldest one got spanked a lot. (FTR, it didn’t help). My middle one, maybe once or twice. The youngest has gotten spanked maybe twice, as well. With the youngest two, it’s been very effective. Like others have said, though, it’s a last resort, not a first response.
I didn’t have to hit my son to make him listen. If that’s the only way to get a kid to do what they’re told, that’s sad. My dad had to say things once and that was it. My pet peeve are parent’s that argue with their kids.
But I agree with dangermom. I don’t see anything wrong if people give their kid a swat and I’m sick of nanny states too.
I know where you’re coming from! I had a mom like that and I never did anything to make her erupt! One day when I was 4 I decided to sit perfectly still in the same place all day so I’d be sure of being ‘good’. It made a real mouse of me most of my life and gave me an alter ego I both like and fear. (You just never know when she’s gonna rise up and start making trouble.)
My opinion of spanking changed slightly during the course of this discussion - but I still would oppose a legislated ban. So “no” to the second question.
As to the first question: I guess legally the federal gov’t could make it a crime and thus it is within its jurisdiction. Unless you mean “should it be”? I can’t think of any reason why the federal government should not have the power to enact and enforce a ban on spanking. If they did, and I still had kids of a spanking age, I wouldn’t feel compelled to civilly disobey to protest the government overstepping its bounds.
If a parent can swat a kid on the butt as a corrective action and get positive results, more power to 'em.
To answer the OP’s first question: No. Supreme Courts in both the U.S. and Canada (and in the U.K. as well, I believe, though I have no reference) have ruled that there is a line between discipline and abuse. The parent can’t cross it, and neither can the government.
To the second question: Again no, although I quit spanking one day when I had to wrestle my 5-year-old son to the floor to spank him and realized we had gone waaaaaay beyond a disciplinary smack on the fanny. It absolutely broke my heart to realize what had happened – I sat on the floor, held him in my arms and promised him I’d never raise a hand to him in anger again. I don’t know who cried harder, him or me.
I have a theory about spanking: It gets out of hand when the parent waits too long or not long enough. A sharp but loving whack on the behind early in the acting-up process settles things down and avoids escalation to the outrage and anger stage when a parent lashes out in frustration and starts beating on the kid’s backside (that was my problem.) Bring the youngster up short early on, and you don’t run as much risk of losing your temper.
For major offenses, a parent needs to cool down and consider the misdeed a “crime against society” rather than against the parent, then administer a formal five-swat punishment (meant more to show the parent’s power than to inflict terrible pain). That keeps it from being vengance and teaches the child that Mom or Dad has the power to change the child’s behavior.
Add me to the No, No vote.
My eldest child is now 18 and has never been struck at all. I vowed that I would not be the type of parent that would hit their child.
Then my daughter was born.
She got into this habit of making this God awful shrieking noise when she was about 6. (She’s 8 now). Telling her to stop, punishing her, yelling made no difference. She would just sit and scream when she didn’t get her way. Finally, I had had enough. I remembered my mother used to hit with a wooden spoon. I recalled the sting of it very vividly. During one of my darling daughter’s tantrums I went and took out the spoon. She had a curious expression on her face when I started walking towards her like “Mom, what are ya gonna do with that spoon? Make something?” The horror on her face when I wacked her little hand with it almost broke my heart. However, she only needed one more threat of the spoon and has never made that sound again.
I am glad she is past that age and I can reason with her now. I still feel guilty about hitting her that one time but can understand that it can be very effective.
My mother spanked me when I was growing up (single parent). I think my last one was around 8 or so; I certainly don’t remember getting it after that age (last one I recall was right before our Big Disneyland TriP!!!, which happened when I was almost-9). Mom used a belt, but that was most likely due to me laughing at her one time when she tried bare-handed. I was a stoopid child. But I learned the lesson well: listen to Mom! And I’m pretty sure that I turned out okay.
That said, my wife and I spank our son as needed. We haven’t used a belt, nor do we plan to; it doesn’t seem necessary. The point of spanking isn’t necessarily to hurt the kid, it’s to get their attention and reinforce that what they’re doing is Very Not Acceptable. (Mom didn’t escalate to a belt until I laughed at her efforts; I didn’t laugh after that, hoo boy!)
Our boy is 7 and has quite a few behavior problems, mostly (we think) due to his biological father, who is openly hostile to both of us. Our son is at the “well, daddy lets me do X” stage, but he’s quickly learning that rules are different at our house. It’s kind of sad, really; he spends the weekend at his father’s house and winds up getting in trouble in school Monday and Tuesday, but if he spends the weekend at our house his teachers are complimenting us on how well he pays attention. sigh
Anyway, the point is, spanking may or may not be necessary for your kid (generic ‘you’), but keep yer opinions to yourself about mine. You don’t know the situation and a one-size-fits-all solution doesn’t work for kids.
(I feel like I should point out that Mom wasn’t a one-trick pony. I learned the flavor of bar soap for cussing or talking back too much; learned the joy of being grounded for not doing chores or whatnot; learned the fun times to be had when the TV is unplugged, or staring at the corner during time-out, or what-have-you. Spanking was very much the last resort punishment for SERIOUS crimes against the Motherland. But I had lots of fun as a kid, it wasn’t like I grew up in a discliplinary household, despite what it sounds like.)
Also, legislating something like spanking leads to a lot more trouble than it would solve. What is the penalty for swatting your child now? Arrest? CPS involvement? Are those all things that would be far worse for the child than the swat was? We would be turning millions of good, decent parents into “criminals” --further clogging the child welfare system and leaving actual abused children more alone than they are now.
And how will it be enforced? It’s the sort of law that leads directly to general contempt for law and the justice system, because it’s so silly and ineffective. Rather like a parental version of Prohibition.
It also betrays a general distrust of people: the legislators who propose this kind of law clearly feel that adults cannot be trusted to make their own decisions about how to parent their children. Wait, no nanny-state ranting today. I’ll stop there.
(Sorry about using American terms for a Canadian issue, but it was recently proposed here too, and I don’t know what the Canadian child-welfare system is called anyway.)
To answer the other question, I can recall being spanked once, at about 3 or 4. We very rarely spank–the 6yo has outgrown it now anyway, but my main spanking-reason was running out into the street–I would give a swat (as well as going directly indoors) to emphasize the point. I have never spanked a child in anger. I can’t remember the last time the 4-yo merited a swat–probably several months ago. I have a lot of other methods that usually work to induce behavior, but I also have pretty easy kids.
I don’t hit my kids (and that is what spanking is). It’s not necessary. There are a million other ways to discipline a child and to establish yourself as a parent and the authority figure in the house. I don’t see why you would want to hit when there are other options. In fact, IMO, it diminishes your authority because your children see that you can’t come up with a real solution…you just end up hitting them when you can’t figure out another way to approach a situation. That’ not how I want my children to see me and it’s not a very good lesson in life for them.
That said, I don’t think “spanking” needs to be banned. Abuse is illegal. If a parent is hitting their child to the point of abuse, then there are already consequences. If the parent is hitting their child in the way of most parents who do that (and which is culturally acceptable in our society), the that’s not abuse. I do think it’s bad parenting, though, but I’m not the aribiter of parenting in our country.
By the way, I was occasionally spanked as a child (and definitely not in an abusive way). I can remember thinking it was stupid, refusing to cry, being very defiant in the face of it, and thinking that my father was and idiot because of it.
That kind of thing I can definitely see. My son did that kind of thing when he was about 2. We went to the beach and I told him to wait as I was putting things down. He just took off and ran straight for the ocean. I had my clothes and shoes still and and had to grab him and I did the same thing.
I’m against spanking.
I was spanked as a kid. I was also beaten. I’ve had a belt used on bare skin. I’ve been hit repeatedly on the head and in the face.
I’m single with no kids. Should I ever have children, I won’t hit them. I don’t see the need. There are other ways to get your point across to a child. I don’t think there is any occasion where a spanking is warranted.
My grandmother managed to raise three children without ever once hitting them. I can do the same.
But I learned the lesson well: listen to Mom! And I’m pretty sure that I turned out okay.