Maybe your friends can sense that you are already thinking ahead to frolicking in the hay. I think that most women like to be asked out because you think they are special – not because you want to have sex.
It’s not that women don’t want the sex. It’s just that we want YOU to want it because you’ve gotten to know and like us first.
Take a vacation in Europe. Northern Europeans seem to find Americans alluring. I’m serious.
Or, if you find someone that you are really attracted to and she discourages you, send her two dozen roses and don’t call for two weeks.
**Miller, ** I know that your post was in rant-mode…and that you didn’t ask for any advice…but you sound like a great guy and I hope you don’t mind if I share some with you anyway. if I may?
The longer you wait to ask a girl out…the more “friendly” you become with her before Asking The Question…the less likely she is to say yes. Lots of guys think that by becoming friends with a girl, they’ll have time to “work” on her. Get on her good side, disarm her, be The Guy She Calls When Things Break Down/Heavy Things Need To Be Lifted, etc…and that by doing so, he’ll eventually be just The Guy For Her.
But girls don’t think the same way. You categorize yourself, within the first few minutes/hours/days of your acquaintance, by how you behave and how you treat her. If you become her “pal,” chances are good you’ll never be anything else. This is where the “big brother” and “ruin our friendship” line comes in…this means you’ve already categorized yourself. You’ve waited too long. You’re not on The List.
Girls like to date confident guys. They also like having lots of guy friends. This line gets drawn very early…and usually by the guy himself.
Don’t be “friends” with girls you’d like to date. That’s how they’ll always see you. Establish your goal early; ask That New Atractive Girl what she’s doing next weekend. Say you’d like to hang out. She’ll understand that you’d like to date her; it’s in her court from then on. As long as you’re non-threatening, and you seem like fun, a lot of girls will at least give you a chance…and then you can become the warm-hearted, intelligent, humorous date that you’ve been, as a friend, for all those other girls.
If she doesn’t go for it, at least you didn’t waste any time pining for her; if she does, BINGO. You’ve got her. Or at least a chance at her.
I’ll agree with Primaflora. My SO and I were friends for almost two and a half years before we got our acts together and realised that we actually love each other. We’ll have been together (as a couple) for two years this coming Sunday.
I hope nobody jumps my shit for this, but I truly believe sexiness can be cultivated. I’m not talking about prancing around all goofy- like and saying stuff like, “look into my eyes” or any of that shit. But if you’re just slightly more conscious of what you wear, and maybe hold eye contact just A LITTLE longer than you do with friends, or master the “light shoulder touch” when you’re talking. These things give off the intimacy vibe without being pushy or obnoxious. And without sounding like all you want to do is get laid. People NEVER think my husband and I would be a couple, much less wildly attracted to each other physically. We are physically complete opposites. But there’s something about him…
And my marriage came about like Manda JO described: My husband is steady. When I met him, I finally realized that this is what I wanted and needed, so I married him.
Not that it probably matters, but based on your posts I find you quite fuckable, Miller. I’ve admired you ever since you first wowed me with your haiku, and I look forward to your quips whenever I see your username.
Kalhoun is right. It all boils down to confidence. You’d be surprised what nice clothes and a nice haircut can do, too. When you ask a woman out, have a place in mind. Don’t say, “Would you like to go out to eat with me sometime.” Instead say, “Would you like to go out for (insert specific type of restaurant food, i.e. Chinese, steak, etc here) with me on (insert specific date)?” If she says she doesn’t like that type of food, have two alternatives in mind. Same if she’s busy on that specific date. If she agrees on the date, ask if she likes Restaurant X. Then confirm the time. And be sure to project an air of, “I’m interested in you, but your refusal isn’t going to break my heart.”
Then be sure you’re on time, smelling nice but don’t use much cologne (if any) with clean, neatly pressed clothes. But I’m sure you know all that.
And like Audrey, my husband and I were strangers when we started dating.
Well, sometimes being friends first works. But a lot of times it doesn’t.
Before I met my husband, he was very interested in a girl named Jen. But he thought they should be friends first, and also that their first official date should be a real “date,” with dinner and flowers and all that. So, he pursued the friendship. She had a one-night stand with his roommate. He kept pursuing the friendship. When he finally asked her out on the “date,” she said, “I thought you were gay!” When he assured her that he wasn’t, she gave him the whole “like a brother” line.
Then he met me, and wanted to make sure the same thing didn’t happen. He was “more than friendly” towards me from the beginning, and his intentions were clear. Obviously, he “got” me.
Some time later, I asked him if he got the “like a brother” and “don’t want to ruin the friendship” line frequently, and he said that he almost always did! And he guessed it was because he wanted to “do the right thing” and pursue a friendship first, and by the time he got around to making a move, they couldn’t see him romantically. Thank Og he saw the errors of his ways before he met me. Of course, I can’t imagine not wanting to date him, but who knows?
Anyway, that’s just one man’s success story.
Good luck, Miller. I think you’re keen, too, and I’m sure you’re just as keen in real life.
I agree with what a lot of people have said, but here’s a thought:
I’ll bet you’re smart, caring, sensitive, polite and all that. Surefire recipe for the “brother” speech (breakup speech #6) or the “I just don’t think of you that way” speech (B.S.#8).
Used to happen to me all the time. And what made it worse is that next time I saw the women who gave me those lines, they were with guys who were obviously dicks.
Solution? Simple!
Become an asshole. Not too much of one, of course. That’s just not right. Say, tone down the sensitivity a little (personally, I’d draw the line well before the “I torture kittens in my spare time” bit. But you know what I mean.)
I’ve seen other threads here where women who say “But we don’t like assholish men! We like sensitive, caring, gentle men!” And still more where guys say “Well if that’s so, why is it that when I stopped being that way, I started getting dates?” It’s weird like that.
But be an enigma. Don’t show all of your good points at once; play up some of your bad points a little bit. Nobody likes a goody-two-shoes. (YMMV)
Of course, if my opening assumption is wrong, ignore everything I just said.
I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the whole “friends before/date a stranger” thing.
My ex and I were best friends for almost 8 years before we decided to become a couple. We truly loved each other, but in the end it didn’t work. I know now that he loves me, but he was never “in love” with me. He loved me and respected me and thought I was a girl he could “settle down” with, but that whole goofy romantic feeling never kicked in. He thought that if he stuck around long enough, he would fall “in love” with me. It just doesn’t work that way every time.
Now, I’m dating a different guy. From Day One, he told my sister that he was going to marry me. (Even though I was dating the ex.) He never gave me the chance to think of him as a “brotherly” figure. In the two years that we’ve known each other, he’s always kept a little bit of a distance. He has always joked around and flirted with me, and kept reinforcing that “I’m going to marry you one day” thing. (It may sound a little weird, but at least he was dating other people at the time, too.) So, basically, all I’m saying is that there’s good reasoning behind keeping a little distance. It’s the same when girls complain about being “one of the guys”. There’s got to be a little mystery.
I think what Miller needs to do is stop trying to sell a car by passing out brochures of speedboats.
While it’s nice and romantic to hear about people who were friends for a long time and then magically fell in love, it almost never works that way. Miller, if you want a romantic relationship with a woman, don’t start off having a NON-romantic relationship with her. That’s why they think of you as just friends. Because you ARE just friends. If you want romantic relationships, then make romantic overtures. If they don’t work, forget her and move on. If you’re selling friendship don’t be so surprised that they buy friendship - why are you blaming women for thinking they’re supposed to be platonic friends with you when that’s the relationship you’ve nurtured? Sell romance.
Whether you meet 'em at bars, clubs, hobby groups or online dating services, start meeting women with the intent of going on romantic dates with them. Make it your first move, not your move-after-proving-to-them-for-a-year-and-a-half-that-I’m-a-nice-guy. You will get turned down, but it’ll be straightforward and quick, then move on and ask someone else out who seems interesting.
I’ve been in both situations. For years I tried the getting-to-know-you-as-a-friend thing. Never worked. Then I said thehellwithit and just started asking women out. I was NEVER an asshole - I just went after women for dates. If she said yes, terrific. If no, fine, no problem. Whaddya know - instant success. I was dating all kinds of nice, attractive women. I didn’t have to be an asshole at all. The difference was literally night and day - Friends Approach 0%, Straight To Romance 100%. I went from having one date every two years to having a date every two weeks. And I ended up meeting Mrs. RickJay that way, and we’re so in love it’s just sickening.
START with dating. Always start that way. If you meet someone who find romantically intersting, why would you fart around being their friend-who-secretly-wantsta-bangya? More precisely why would THEY want to fart around that way? If she’s atracted to you, she doesn’t want to wait a year to raise the issue of romance any more than you do. Ask them out point blank on an unmistakably romantic evening. If it doesn’t work out you’ve lost an evening and the cost of a date. But if it goes well, THEN you might become friends and lovers at the same time, and pal, THAT’S the really awesome part - doing both simultaneously.
I don’t have a better friend in the world than Mrs. RickJay, but we kissed the second day we knew each other. Be clear and positive and proactive. Don’t bother ever asking out another girl you’ve been “Friends” with for a long time - waste of time, IMHO. Meet new women, ask them out. Repeat until successful.
Also, look to your appearance. I’m not saying you’re a slob, but just in case you wear old running shoes when you go out on the town, bear in mind women like a well dressed, well turned out guy.
Here’s what you do: next time you see a really attractive woman, whip your dick out and chase her around with it.
Do this a few times, and before you know it, you’ll be getting all sorts of dates. I mean, sure, you’ll be in prison, but hey, dates are dates, right? (Plus, even if a guy tells you he thinks of you like a sister, it’s probably just foreplay.)
if I may?
