Peeps…you are making this too hard. You don’t have to touch her or take her hand. Just get close to her and what does she do? Move closer, keep her distance or pull away?
In my experience, an interested woman will find ways to touch you far before you even consider trying to take her hand.
Shhh! Hopefully we’ll convince him to spend his entire next date touching the poor woman.
Well said… (well their was a ton of good advice in this thread but this really struck me)
This is a good reason to lift weights and/or say do MMA… its not essentially that if I get 20 inch arms ladies will love me… its more so that accomplishing an obstacle will give you confidence. Regardless of what you choose like an earlier poster said confidence is a whole lot of the soup. I’m having this discussion with my middle schooler right now. I’m consistently telling him that the second best answer a woman can give you is NO. Don’t dip your toe in the water… dive in… it seems to me you’re kind of waiting for it to happen. Go for it man!!
Oh you are soo wrong…
Agree with this. Recently I met up with someone, we ended up at a cafe/bar and had been talking for most the night. At one point he asked if he could see my rings, so I offered him my hand, he took it in his own, and we had a (subtly flirty) conversation about my rings – the symbolism of the claddagh ring, why I wear the three-links ring, etc. Eventually he told me that I have very nice hands, and it made me a little melty inside.
This is a very good example of how to do something like this. It was absolutely clear what his intentions were, but it wasn’t invasive and, by asking first, he gave me a choice. Plus using the rings made for a good excuse to hold hands without it being clumsy or awkward (and we were pretty much holding hands for the rest of the night).
Not everyone is going to be wearing rings, of course, but keep your eyes open for opportunities like this, and take advantage of them.
As for trust… well, I’ll just say I find those standards to be unrealistic. Unless you’re holding yourself to the same standard and are perfectly willing to, say, start lending her money after 4 dates.
That’s a nice move.
Thanks for all the responses
Cazzle, astro, elbows et al.: Agree on having a worthwile life myself first and foremost. Which does include non-dates with nice women because (ref. **Alice The Goon **) I do actually like women, don’t just regard them as means to an end.
Icarus: as Eyebrows 0f Doom said English is a second language to me - my mother tongue is one stereotypically given to complicated expression. My nationality also gets me excused from the sense of humour requirement.
Malthus, Wilbo523: colleagues are a special case: they are people who cannot choose to avoid me. There is a practical as well as ethical corollary to that which is espoused not only by cowards but also by bolder minds (how’s that for stilted?)
MichaelEmouse’s question: they said something to the effect "X got too near ::groan:: or “well Y would want to get alone with me ::titter::” - we Germans do convey somewhat more with tone of voice I think, which is why utterances like “Management has decided to…” convey an entirely different message verbatim than in print.
Again thanks to all to whose posts I have’t referred specifially.
Off to character-building experiences I go. If at any time in the next few years my posts at the SDMB should suddenly cease I have probably been throttled by an exasperated woman.
You know, I found myself thinking about this post last night and wanted to come back to it.
It’s one thing to say that you’re not interested or prepared to be in a relationship with a person who has some healing to do. This? This displays a bitterness, cynicism, and downright hatred of women I can’t begin to fathom.
There’s a reason more than one woman has told you she needs time to get to know and trust you, astro, and then never carries through. It’s because this attitude makes it clear that you aren’t worthy of that trust or an intimate relationship.
It’s not bitterness, just real world life experience. If someone is coming to the dating table covered up with trust issues it’s not likely we’re a good match. Over the years I’ve been down some extremely long roads with women who had significant trust issues, and in the end, even after months, and in some cases years, there was no level of effort or manifest demonstrated trustworthiness that would satisfy them. I came to the conclusion that the “trust issue” was, in most cases, simply more of an innate personality characteristic of that individual, and not something they were going to be “healed” out of.
Beyond this, I’m 51, I’ve been in the same line of work for over 23 years in my area and if someone dating me wants to take the trouble I’m an easily researched person IRL. I’m almost tiresomely trustworthy and dutiful, so much so I sometimes wonder if I’m missing out on some potential “bad boy” action by not being more of an unreliable mystery man. If a woman can’t get a solid “trust” vibe from me by the 4th date (IMO) it’s just not going to happen, and I need to move on.
What I want at this point in my dating is a mature relationship with an emotionally mature woman. I’ve spent a lot of time in my dating life in my younger days being an ICU for broken hearts. It’s an exhausting emotional exercise. At this point in my life that’s simply not where I want to be.
Is it the German thing? Or did he fail to respond to every question about his inablility to make the first move romantically with women? :smack:
I’m a woman, but I didn’t take it that way. He’s probably on to something that’s more about these particular women than females in general. I have a feeling that women who jump into relationships with men based on physical attraction probably do end up hurt more often than not. This would of course build trusting issues, yet IME the behavior itself doesn’t change.
I’m just saying I’ve known more than a few women who repeatedly mistake lust for love, get hurt and bitch about how men are assholes and they’ll never trust another one, then fall hard for the next unsuitable asshole that turns them on.
Absolutely, this isn’t all women. But it certainly would fit the profile of the female Astro was talking about.
Sorry not to explicitly address these, it’s just that I cannot think of a really useful response to that (one that’s neither obvious i.e. trivial nor defensive i.e. wrongheaded).
FWIW re pawing I got my attitude readjustment speech by a pawee in 10th form at school, and still think it’s a valid lesson learned, one I am not going to unlearn. Otherwise, going to explore what a lot of others said.
If it’s justly described as “pawing” you are doing it wrong. 
Another thing: there’s another, not really related, discussion here, one with Pit potential (see recent contributions by astro, phouka, Creole Tomato) whether or not there’s something wrong with some women. Could you take that to its own thread? Please?
When you’re having so much fun in life that you don’t notice the lack of an ‘other’, people will be naturally drawn to that energy. People who are enjoying life, have a magnetic effect on others.
When your life is so full with challenge, fun and awesome there seems no time for a partner, one will magically appear and, literally, wedge their way into your life, 'cause that’s how life really works.
Or when you decide that Prince Charming (or Princess, as the case may be) isn’t magically going to show up at your door while you couch surf, and you start taking definite steps towards the goal of finding a mate. For me that step was first phone dating, then online dating. I created a profile of who I was and what I was looking for, and then went looking at other guys’ profiles to see if there were any matches there, then did the work to make something happen (emails, phone calls, first date after first date, etc.).
This. Lots of guys don’t know how to dance, don’t like to dance, and won’t try it. Consequently, there are almost always more women interested in dancing in any given situation than men, and so you’ll have your pick, or nearly so. And seeing a guy, formerly a friend, who can suddenly dance very well, is a major chick-flick cliche. Take advantage of this.
When I was in school, there was a skinny quiet gay guy who was immensely popular with the ladies because he could, and would, dance with them. He didn’t have snarky rapier wit, he wasn’t built like a brick shithouse, he wasn’t going to Win The Big Game, but he liked to dance, on occasion, with his female friends. While all the straight guys sat there like bags of grain, fuming. (Of course, that’s a whole different topic, gays and straight women, but the point is, he could and would dance.)
I am enjoying the image of fuming bags of grain.
No…what this is - is the realization that when a woman isn’t really into you, but you are not out (she kinda likes you) she will find some reason to tag you along. Saying you have a ‘trust issue’ is an easy way to do that. What Astro probably experienced was this…but when the woman found someone she really liked, she jumped into the sack with him - which astro duely noted.
It’s not strange. I’ve seen it. Heck, most men have seen it. It comes in many forms. When younger ‘saving myself for marriage’ was common. ‘Trust issues/hurt before/etc’ always a favorite at any age. When I was a teacher, ‘what will the community think’ popped up a couple times with me and other teacher I knew. All went out the window when I guy they really liked came along.
It really is best to assume that whatever a woman says to keep you at a distance tagging along but not to reject you is just that - not real, just an excuse. Forget that woman and find someone who really likes you (not just wishy washy liking you).