Las Vegas, College Friends and Infidelity

Great Debates
1

This weekend I am joining some old friends in Vegas for a weekend of drinking, smoking, gambling and golf. My SO is very disturbed by this and relates this to a form of cheating. I do not cheat on my wife but she feels that I will not be able control myself in the midst of all of the available distractions. My question has two parts.

  1. Is this a fight worth having? I am going anyway, so do I bother trying to justify my position?

  2. Is infidelity more than physical acts? Does look but don’t touch not apply?

Quick background. Married 7 years, 1 child, no other issues present or prior.

2

1.) No, not worth having.

2.) Yes, I would agree that there are such things as emotional infidelity (ex. being in love with another woman, though not doing anything about it)…but drinking and golf do not count as such as far as I can see.

3

Reassure your wife by reminding her that prostitution is illegal so long as you stay within the city limits of Las Vegas.

4

Tak said:

Why does she think this? I mean, have you ever given her any reason to believe you’ve been less than monogamous with her? If not, why is she so worried?

5

I have never done anything to even raise a suspicion. I think it has more to do with the crowd (fraternity guys) than the location (or maybe it’s the combination). I guess my frustration is she still thinks that when I am with my friends I am still the same way I was when I was 22. Not quite true. Granted, I have had to bail more than one of these guys out of jail, but that was all in college more than 5 years ago. I was hoping that the statute of limitations had passed.

BTW, I have been to Vegas probably a dozen times in the last two years for different races both with and without her, but this is the first time there has been a concern.

And as far as legal prostitution goes, it’s only 60 minutes to Pahrump (boy, even the town name sounds dirty!).

6

Tak said:

Um, color me confused. First you say you have never done anything, then you indicate that perhaps you did, but it was when you were 22. Which is it?

7

To clarify,

She feels that I will revert to how I was when I was 22, three years before we married. She thinks that the group of us meeting are all still responding the same way now as we did ten years ago. Since we have been married, there has never been a single problem until I said I was meeting these guys in Vegas. I hope that clears it up.

8

I think there is deeper issues with your wife than just going to Vegas. Why the mistrust? Did she know any of the guys back in college? Are you easily influenced by your buddies? I think there are too many variables here to give a simple answer. But since this is about Vegas, I’ll gamble and give my opinion.

  1. If it bothers her, sooner or later it will bother you. Or come up again in conversation, or during an arguement. Just going away doesn’t mean the problem is gone. She needs to communicate a bit more on the nature of her untrust.

  2. After reading this part over for the third time, it hit me but I’ll be damned if I’m going to erase what I wrote. Sounds like she’s worried about the Strip Clubs and seeing your college buds will require a visit there. The question back is if you don’t think it’s cheating to go to a strip club and she does think it’s cheating, is it still cheating? Good luck if you think you can change her mind on that one.

Sounds like a rock and a hard place to me. Just assure her that you’ll lose all your money in the casino and not in a stripper’s g-string. Good luck with that one too!

9

I could’ve sworn you guys were discussing the movie, “VERY BAD THINGS”!

Tak, if you haven’t, you must see this movie B4 you go–and be sure to watch it until the very end! ( Just don’t let your SO see it until you’ve returned!)

Sundance Films is showing it Thurs. 6/8 at 2 a.m., or it may be out on video. It’s a black comedy starring Christian Slater, Cameron Diaz, Jeanne Tripplehorn, et.al.

It’ll leave you thinking about it for days after you’ve seen it. …And just for good measure, have your frat bros see it too!

Have A Nice Trip!

10

Ask her why she married you, since she clearly does not trust you and does not take your marriage vows seriously.

Paul Yeah
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11

tak

You have to figure out whether the trip is worth the grief you will get from your wife, and OTOH, how important your family is compared to the trip.

For whatever reason, your spouse does not trust you to the extent you wish. (I’m assuming the trip imposes no significant money or time costs upon your family.)

PREPARE FOR UPCOMING GROSS SIMPLIFICATION: There seem to be at least 2 types of marriages. In one, the partners enjoy spending time together, but also pursue their own interests. In the other, the belief is that most if not all social and recreational relationships and activities have to be shared by both spouses. Does one or the other of these models fit your marriage? Do you and your wife agree on how you view that?

So your mind is made up to go on this trip. Be super sweet before you go. Take care of the kid and let her go out with the girls, or pamper herself in some way. Consider calling her from Vegas, telling her you miss her (and don’t be shitfaced at the time.) When you come back, do something extra special for her. And don’t plan on any more trips in the immediate future. This way you will show her that even tho this type of thing isn’t her preference, she can trust you not to totally screw up.

IMO, no, strip clubs ain’t infidelity, but that doesn’t mean your wife has to like them.

Married 7 years, huh? Starting to itch? I read an article a while back that said people marry for irrational reasons: infatuation, desire to change their situation, sense of duty, etc. And when you are courting, neither you nor your prospective partner are really acting like yourselves. One day you wake up and say, whoa, this person next to me isn’t the person I married. You’re right. The person you married was acting differently, and you were seeing her differently. This article suggested this type of realization most often occurs around 7 years. Then, the challenge (and reward) is to see what kind of relationship you can forge between 2 people who really know each other. That type of truly knowing love can be much deeper and stronger than whatever infatuation existed previously.

Sorry if I didn’t express that well.

(Stay away from the “Don’t Pass” bar if I’m rolling!)

12

My wife, and many women, hate the idea of their man ogling young naked hotties. IF her problem is the strip clubs, perhaps you can negotiate that you wont go to any. It is up to you if you want to go anyway and lie about it later. But perhaps you can pinpoint the specific item that is bothering her and negotiate that. potential worries that a wife might have:

1)ogling naked hotties
2) prostitutes
3) gambling away the family’s money
4) drinking too much
5) doing drugs
6) being in an unsafe environment
7) the trip costing too much money

IT would probably help to narrow down what “reverting to my 22 year old days” translates into.

13

Dinsdale, thanks for the gross simplification. Believe it or not, that is what I was hoping to get from this. The trip poses no monetary concern, just a unique emotional strain. In the 3 days since posting we have narrowed her concerns down to the fact that she hates two of the guys going and would prefer that I never saw them again. Not a real big issue with me since there will be about 12 of us there and I am going to see three buddies I haven’t seen in years. The other guys will be good to see but I probably won’t spend too much time with them.

Strangely enough, the infidelity remark was retracted immediately upon pressing the issue. Imagine that, talking it out with your spouse!! Strippers fall into the “I would prefer it if you didn’t” category and honestly all I am looking for is a golf course and the Sportsbook at Caesers. While I was venting to the board, I was surprised at the responses from the funny (tracer) to the angry (PaulYeah). I did get a couple of answers for my question, so I will ask it again, this time more clearly.

Q) Is infidelity exclusively a physical act

I appreciate the concern for my plight. Maybe next time I’ll sleep on the issue befor ranting. But for some reason this question concerns me. I have not even kissed a woman other than blood relatives or my wife since I got engaged. Does oogling count, what about fantasy? Maybe I don’t even wan’t to think about these things.

14

tak29813 asked:

According to most Christian churches, no. Looking upon a woman with lust in one’s heart is just as much an act of adultery as is actually sleeping with that woman, according to them- thus, going to strip bars, ogling women passing by, and involving oneself in cybersex is just as much adultery as going out and having an affair.

(Personally, that means that I’ll just have the affair; as long as just looking at another woman means going to hell, might as well make the trip worth it, right?)

Don’t know if you’re Christian or particularly worshipful if you are; but just letting you know that there are some people that believe infidelity is a state of mind, not action.

15

I would say that emotional intimacy with another could compose infidelity towards your spouse. If you were disclosing things she had said to you in confidence, or if you were sharing with them things that you did not share with your wife. Of course there could be an exception for “guy things” etc., but if you are confiding your hopes, fears, and dreams in someone other than your spouse, yeah, I’d say you are being unfaithful to them.

Fantasies? Come on. Maybe if they are to the point that you have to imagine someone other than your spouse to get it up, but thinking and looking at other women? No way. Of course, it doesn’t help if you are talking with your wife at the beach, and lose track of the conversation due to the “scenery.” (Not that that ever happened to me! Ouch!) And even tho you may invest in a nice dark pair of shades, it is still way obvious.

From my experience, you may well be in for some rough waters. My wife doesn’t care for most of my friends from college. I only see them a couple of times a year, but she begrudges even that. Of course on one occasion, I got so drunk I couldn’t drive home. So she has a basis for disliking them and distrusting my ability to handle the situation. And she hates my practicing martial arts. We still go through our rough times, and this Aug will be 15 years. So don’t think there is an instant cure after which everything will be hunky-dory.

It certainly is not necessarily unhealthy for spouses to take separate trips. And one weekend in 7 years certainly is not excessive by any means. (Reassure her that tho this may recur, it won’t often or regularly.) Say one likes skiing and the other doesn’t. Why drag the other along instead of going with some like minded friends? That doesn’t mean you don’t love each other and can’t enjoy being together the other 51 weekends a year. I think the trick is to effectively show her how much you love her that this small trip shrinks to its proper perspective in the grand scheme of things.

Final observation, is Vegas a “guy thing?” I mean, the idea of going with your buddies, playing golf all day, gambling, then hitting a show or a strip club. Drinking too much, and then waking up and doing it again the next day. Doesn’t get much better than that! Sure it’s immature and irresponsible. But what is necessarily wrong with that once in a while and in some degree of moderation?

Don’t know if I have ever heard women talk of Vegas as Nirvana the way many many men do.

16

Her’s a good rule: if it would hurt you if your wife did it, then you shouldn’t do it.

I don’t think of an affair in black in white terms. It is a continuum from looking at someone and thinking “yummy” to sex. The question is not necesarily where the line is, but rather where your spouse sets it.

THe adulterer shouldn’t define adultery, the cuckhold should. So, If your wife has a flirtatious affair of the heart (only) with someone, would you consider that adultery? If she made out with someone, would you consider it an affair?

I know I would. Anything beyond looking is betrayal.

17

Right on target! Marriage is marked by vows made to each other, not simply by a contact before god and society. There are things that would bother me far more than my husband having a love affair. A trip to Las Vegas with old friends i did not like would rank far worse than him having sex with someone I approved of. Worse yet would be him spending time with his old friends if he acts like a different person around them.

My husband had a buddy that encouraged him to “act like a man” and “put his foot down.” He started behaving meanly to me. He would go out and not tell me when he would be back and after a while call and tell me to have a dinner ready for him and his buddies at a specific time and then not show up. He stopped confiding in me and trusting me. That and weeks of arbitrary orders alienated me. I was prepared to leave him when he suddenly realized that he would much prefer a life without his asshole friend to a life without me. I had not told him of my plans to leave, but something happened that was a wake up call for him.

Many believe their god sees adultry in thought as much as in action. Few wives see these as the same thing.