Latecomer to Lucifer/Questions/Season Four Anticipation

Cafe Society
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When Lucifer moved to Netflix I discovered and binge-watched it. I have a few random observations and questions about it.

Spoilers for prior seasons will fly freely.

Lucifer is an angel. Yes, he’s the Devil, but his species is angel. Or celestial if you prefer that term.

Lucifer is an illegal alien as he was not born in the US and certainly didn’t go through proper immigration channels. And has forged documentation. A rather minor point what with bribing police officers, consuming mountains of illicit drugs, and incidents of assault, but there’s a potential episode there if someone of the right sort of authority discovers any of that.

Lucifer, and by extension the rest of the angels, is not human, that is, he is not Homo sapiens. So… all that sex is interspecies sex, rishathra, xenosex, or whatever you want to term it. It is NOT bestiality because angels and humans aren’t beasts. Although angel/demon and human/demon sex might be bestiality, given that demons don’t have souls… except that demons are also clearly sapient.

Presumably, the reason Lucifer can get jiggy so often (92 partners in two months being considered a “dry spell”) without STD’s is because he isn’t human and STD’s can’t cross that particular species barrier. Which is also why Amenadiel can’t actually get chlamydia, although with him “falling”/becoming mortal it’s implied that he might start catching human diseases. Sex with Lucifer is safe sex! For similar reasons pregnancy should never be a worry… unless, of course, Dad decides a miracle is in order, then all bets are off.

Since there seems to be a very strong incest taboo among the celestials (angels and their kin) presumably the only sex the angels can have is, in fact, interspecies sex because it’s implied that all angels are siblings.

Lucifer’s wings make no aerodynamic sense. I can hear him saying "I’m not a bird" But that’s OK - his wings don’t have to work like a bird’s or bat’s. Sure, he can fly through the air, but it seems the really important point about them is inter-realm travel. Angel wings can transport you from Earth to Heaven, Heaven to Hell. They look like bird wings (sort of, more or less) but they are no more that sort of wing than the eyespots on a butterfly wing are actual eyes that can see. Butterfly wing eye-spots aren’t for seeing, they serve a different purpose than seeing even if they look like eyes (sort of, more or less). Angel wings aren’t for flapping-wing flying, they’re for inter-realm/inter-dimensional travel. The fact they can carry their owner through the air, or be used to beat up bad guys, are useful things but not their primary purpose. They also aren’t wings in the sense of birds or bats because they can, apparently, go through clothes - we’ve seen his wings manifest through his shirt/vest/suit when he’s fully clothed without tearing or ripping his clothes. They might look like wings, but they aren’t wings like mortal creatures have. Maybe they exist in different dimension(s) than our usual three?

Lucifer doesn’t actually have a British Isles accent (Tom Ellis does, of course, but the actor is not the character and vice versa). We’ve seen that he can speak any language, and he can also adopt an American accent at will. That’s the accent he chooses to have, it’s not something he acquired via upbringing and exposure like a human acquires an accent. It’s an affectation, like three-piece designer suits.

Based on some of the fight scenes, Lucifer has a much faster reaction time than a human, allowing him to dodge/weave, grab weapons out of an opponent’s hands, and so forth. This is not dependent on Amenadiel slowing time, as he does this even when his brother is not around.

Questions: (probably not answered as of yet)

When Lucifer is injured, if Chloe stays nearby does he heal human-slow or faster than that? If Chloe moves outside of whatever radius her anti-magic field has does Lucifer heal faster?

We’ve seen that Lucifer can regenerate his wings. If he lost some other limb(s) would that likewise regenerate?

I’m kind of curious just how strong Lucifer is. Up to now, he’s been as strong as the narrative required, which might be the actual answer: he’s as strong as he needs to be to get something done. Or there might be a more concrete answer but we don’t know at this point.

Anticipation:

Obviously, Season 4 is going to involve Chloe dealing with the knowledge that Lucifer really is the Devil and he really never has lied to her… even if he doesn’t always tell the full truth. Is she going to find out that he’s died not once but twice for her benefit? Given that Chloe is protective by nature (being willing to take a bullet for someone else) that might well mess with her head.

What is Chloe’s reaction going to be when she realizes she’s been rooming with an actual demon, and has left her child in the care of an actual demon at times?

Let’s look at the elephant in the room: Lucifer is immortal and immensely old already. Chloe is human and she presumably only has a human lifespan. She’s also a good human being and is likely to go to heaven… after which Lucifer will never see her again. No wonder he’s so reluctant to form emotional attachments to human beings. Or is this all a ploy by Dad to give Lucifer an incentive to reform/ask forgiveness such that he can get back into heaven again, at least on the occasional day pass? Lucifer is NOT going to want to Chloe wind up in hell. It’s a mayfly-December romance. Wonder if they’re going to deal with the issues that raises?

Do you think anyone else in the mortal world is going to … well, not find out Lucifer’s secret since he’s been anything but secret about it, but realize that he really is the Devil?

I can’t imagine Dan would take it well - he and Lucifer have warmed up a bit towards each other but finding out his ex is buddied up with the actual Devil is bound to raise issues. They might not be married anymore but Dan clearly doesn’t want anything bad to happen to Chloe.

Wonder how Ella would take it?

And… that’s probably long enough an OP.

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There have been some hints in the TV show that Chloe is more than she seems, and she definitely is in the comic the series is (very) loosely based on. So I wouldn’t be surprised if we discover this isn’t an issue if the series goes on long enough.

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Just the fact she renders Lucifer mortal means she’s more than she appears to be… the question is whether or not that would include long life.

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I don’t recall too much theology or angelology/daemonology in this show. Presumably the angels are not like aliens or X-men, just normal (in a sense!) people, except for being miraculous (so if somebody sprouts wings and flies to Hell, or has super strength and glowing eyes, or survives getting shot up, there is no point in trying to work out a logical explanation for exactly how they physically pulled that off). Like in Paradise Lost, wherein Raphael explains to Adam that angels absolutely do eat, drink, and fuck (despite being Spirits), and, notably, that humans have the potential to be ethereal like the angels, and also to fall.

It is not anything mundane like genetics or DNA that determines whether a particular character has divine superpowers or not.

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Well, there was a plot point in atleast one episode of Chloe having Lucifers blood to be tested -Lucifer wanted her to test it to prove he wasn’t lieing - and Amadeadeal stating that it was actually divine in some way and tht humans wouldn’t be able to handle that knowledge.

So - there is something ‘genetically’ that could be discovered with that test.

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You are right, there was something like that, at the beginning of Season 2.

In hindsight, though, what tests exactly was Chloe going to perform on the blood that would have revealed its ‘divine nature’ instead of simply what drugs Lucifer had been taking?

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They have also done some exploration of using Chloe to make Lucifer mortal.

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I’ve been enjoying it on Netflix too. I had avoided it previously since it appeared to be a pretty poor adaptation. And it is, but it is a fun enough show on its own merits. I’m glad they gave it another season.

I’m a little unclear on what fallout there will be from Chloe learning about Lucifer. There were two episodes after that, but they were originally meant to air the next season before the semi-cancellation - one didn’t really address it and the other was an alternate timeline.

I don’t think Lucifer can regenerate his wings. He kept cutting them off and God kept putting them back. Amenadiel lost his and couldn’t regenerate them without help.

I’m not sure if Lucifer’s blood would be in danger of skewing regular forensic tests so much as, as was demonstrated with his wings, their divine nature might have odd effects on humans and in the wrong hands be dangerous.

As far as demonic babysitting, I’m not really sure that’s any worse than libertine bounty hunter.

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I’m not sure I’d use the word “poor adaption” as it seems very clear that it was intended to be very different from the beginning. More an alternate take on the core concepts rather than an adaption. Also think it was a good move - I think the current show works better than a show more faithful to the comic book would. TV and comic book/graphic novel are very different media with different strengths and weaknesses. Rather like “Once Upon A TIme” is yet another alternate take on the concept.

The fact that it went three seasons, then was picked up by another production outlet after Fox canceled it would indicate they’re doing something right. It’s not the first time a series radically changed when going from print to visual.

That was actually resolved in season three - how angels feel about themselves affects their physical bodies. The angels are, for lack of a better word, “magical” to some degree although the word has never been used in the show. At the beginning of season three he thought it was God screwing with him but Amenadiel came up with the theory they were doing it to themselves and the last two episodes of that season had Lucifer coming around to that as well.

It probably isn’t exactly like our blood. Maybe it just doesn’t deteriorate like human blood. Maybe something else. It’s pretty clear Amenadiel thinks there’s a difference the humans would notice.

You know, Chloe seems remarkably tolerant of some of Maze’s behavior, especially with an 8/9 year old in the household. Maybe tolerating supernatural beings is another of her superpowers?

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It’s been an important thread that he is not invulnerable when he’s near her. That would mean he loses his angelic properties. And since Chloe seemed to have been created for him (though, technically, she’s his niece), it would seem that God could have been planning that they have a child together.

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He loses some of his angelic traits but not all of them. He retains his super-strength, for example, and his wings work when she’s around as we saw at the end of season 3. On a metalevel it’s an extended metaphor that caring for someone else leaves you vulnerable.

She’s not his niece - Amenadiel only blessed her mother, he didn’t participate in the making of Chloe.

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Missed the edit window:

He loses some of his angelic traits but not all of them. He retains his super-strength, for example, and his wings work when she’s around as we saw at the end of season 3. On a metalevel it’s an extended metaphor that caring for someone else leaves you vulnerable.

She’s not his niece - Amenadiel only blessed her mother, he didn’t participate in the making of Chloe.

In the comics angels are incapable of reproducing - there’s not word on whether or not that would be the case in the TV version. I’m not sure “have a child” is the end goal here, I think it has more to do with Lucifer’s development. “Once Upon A Time” implied that though all parties have free will God is still upping the odds on certain outcomes, “After all, a parent just wants what’s best for their child”. It sounds cliche, but Lucifer is on a path to find true love and happiness… if nothing screws it up. Which could happen because the universe isn’t always a kind place and, let’s face it, Lucifer has epic daddy issues and is contrary by nature.

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How did you come up with Chole is technically Lucifer’s niece? While Amenadiel helped Chole’s mom get pregnant, he didn’t impregnate her. I read that more of a fertility doctor situation. He help the mom get pregnant with her husband’s sperm through some angelic voodoo.

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Well, while we’re all waiting around for Season 4…

Lucifer has issues regarding free will. More specifically, when he first started to understand that Chloe was unusual, and why she was unusual, he more or less freaked out and assumed his Dad put her there, in Lucifer’s path, in order to manipulate Lucifer and that Chloe was unwittingly a puppet in Dad’s schemes.

In fact, I think the exact opposite is true.

Because Chloe is immune to Lucifer’s magical charms she actually has *more *free will around him than any other human because Lucifer can’t manipulate her. If she associates with him it really is because she chooses to do so, not because God or Lucifer compels her to do so. And because Chloe has an “anti-magic” field around her that makes Lucifer vulnerable when he’s around her if Lucifer chooses to associate with her then it puts them on equal footing.

Chloe is the only Human that Lucifer has to deal with as an equal with no magical, angelic manipulations.

Which is why Lucifer is so bad at it - he’s never had to deal with a Human with true free will in his presence before. He’s having to learn how to interact with Humans as if they were real people (which, of course Humans think they are).

I think Lucifer, as of the end of season 3, is starting to understand the Chloe is really a free agent in her own right, that he doesn’t have to manipulate everyone around him, he’s starting to relate to/understand people better now that he’s dealing with someone immune to his powers, and that some of the shit he, Lucifer, has gone through is his own fault and not Dad’s.

Amenadiel went through some of that as well - he looked down on Humans as lesser, had no desire to socialize with them, talk to them, associate with them, and with his time-slowing powers he never had to… until he lost his angelic advantages and suddenly had to deal with Humans on their level, as someone not much different from them, and learned to view them as people.

Something, I’ll note, their mother never learned to do.

If God is manipulating anything here it’s putting his children into situations where they and those around them have genuine free will. It’s up to everyone involved to handle it (or not) as they choose.

Which I suppose is a manipulation of a sort - setting up a situation then NOT intervening.

Thoughts?

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Any word on when season 4 drops?

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I’ve heard early April and just plain April, but nothing I can confirm as solid.

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Netflix has said May 8th.

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There are currently three trailers out for the new season.

There is the Welcome to Netflix one which is flirting with NSFW.

There is the Pool Trailer

And I don’t know if this one will play unless you have Netflix, but a sort of recap of the whole series with some teasing about the upcoming season.

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Yay! snoopy dance

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Two weeks to go - SQUEE!