My friend Gregs wife died quite a while ago. She was cremated.
All of a sudden, out of the blue, her estranged brother came out of the woodwork and demanded he be given some of her ashes. She had nothing in her will or trusts that specified who got her remains. The brother is threatening a lawsuit if he doesn’t receive a small portion of the ashes. Greg refuses on account that brother-in-law is and always has been a shitbag.
Are there any laws or precedents regarding something like this? Sans instructions in a will I would assume the lawful husband would have sole discretion.
This may not help Greg, but from the point of view of a funeral home or crematorium the ashes belong to whoever paid for the cremation, and if not paid for they belonged to the business.
If the funeral expenses were paid out of the estate then my guess is the ashes should be distributed just like any other unspecified property.
I think it’s because of the manner in which he’s demanding it, and the fact that Gregs wife had nothing to do with her brother for almost a decade prior to her death. He didn’t show up at her memorial service. And she died over 9 years ago for crying out loud! The entire thing took Greg by surprise and I think pisses him off. He doesn’t put it past his bil to actually try and sue him.
He asked me if I know of any laws on the matter. I don’t.
In the second scenario, when a person dies intestate, the hierarchy established in the Non-Contentious Probate Rules 1987 will be applicable and the highest ranked family member will have the right/duty to make the funeral arrangements. The hierarchy is as follows:
The surviving spouse
Surviving children or grandchildren
The parents of the deceased
Blood-related brothers and sisters or nieces and nephews in case of deceased siblings
Grandparents
Blood-related uncles and aunts or cousins in the case of a deceased sibling in this category
So your friend, is well within His rights to deny the ashes (IMO depending on the state).
I’d scoop up some ash from the fireplace, put it in a sandwhich size ziplock, give it to him and have a story to share once people begin partying again.
It’s probably what I’d do but I don’t think Greg wants to give him the satisfaction. He can’t stand the guy and after hearing why I understand the reason for his spite.
In my workday environment, I have had occasion to deal with folks making small, insistent and totally irrelevant/unreasonable demands. I’ve found that it doesn’t stop there unless dealt with immediately. Give in and expect to go on a long ride of similar abuse.
Does BIL even know for sure these remains haven’t been scattered to the winds already? If no, I’d send him a Google map location and a link to a cheap Dustbuster on Amazon.
I understand the reluctance to accommodate the brother in law. No matter how estranged he was from your friend’s wife, though, or how awful a person he may be, it’s likely that his desire for some of his sister’s ashes is sincere. I mean, it’s hard to discern an ulterior motive. The amount of ash that will fit in a small reliquary, the kind that fits on a chain that can go around your neck, is a near-immeasurably tiny fraction of the several pounds of cremains Paul has. When my daughter died, it was a long time before I trusted myself to keep my hands steady enough, but once I could, I bought a bunch of them (reliquaries, I mean), and offered to fill one for everyone in the family. Some wanted one, some didn’t, and that was fine, and there was plenty left to scatter or, in our case, for the box my carpenter brother built for her. It pleased me to think that, symbolically, Virginia could move around and meet people and be under the sky, and that she would have helpers in her multidirectional travels. And I would have shared her even with someone I didn’t like, for that purpose. It would not have occurred to me to use my daughter’s body to perpetrate an act of spite or deception in which she had no say, especially as she was neither malicious nor dishonest herself.
As someone who has handled the remains of several loved ones post-cremation…
“Cremains” are more like ground up concrete than they are like fireplace ashes in my experience. So if he’s seen the results of standard cremations yeah, he might very well know the difference between them and “fireplace ashes”.
But maybe other people aren’t as morbidly curious as I am.
I don’t have a cite, but I’ve been told that some religions (Roman Catholic) frowns upon dividing the cremains. Also the remains are to be disposed of into the ground (buried), and not scattered over land or over water unless no other choices are available. Can we assume she was not Catholic?
If it were me I’d probably give him something that also included some of the powdered clay from from my cats litter box. Just for the Ass Pennies satisfaction of knowing the guy had an urn with animal shit and piss in it sitting on his mantel.
I think I agree with this. Maybe he had a recent health scare and is rethinking past relationships. Or found religion or sobriety or guilt. Maybe he has a trip planned for somewhere he remembered her enjoying from their childhood and he wants to scatter some ashes.
It may also be a ploy to get his sister to feel guilty somehow. He might show up to collect some real or fake ashes then ask for something else. Be careful.