So it wasn’t this?
But instead a quote from THIS thread after your little shitfest of an OP and “Bernie or Trump” threats from little children? Could have surprised me.
It’s coincidence that the particular thing that triggered me to start this thread was over an accusation of a conspiracy theory. There’s widespread hate on this board for Bernie supporters, and you see the sort of attitude I talked about in the OP all over the place. You’re attempting to attack my credibility by associating my points about the foolishness of attempting to alienate Bernie supporters with a conspiracy, but these points are not linked. It’s a coincidence that the post that got me to write this OP had anything to do with that, it could’ve easily been people sneering at “Bernie Bros” in some other context.
So yes, I used the quote in this thread, because simply quoting someone saying “Bernie Bro” doesn’t paint the whole picture. The disdain is implied, but requires context. But the quote I actually used spells out exactly what I’m talking about very nicely, so it’s a far more informative and relevant quote.
Now - any sort of conspiracy theories are really beyond the scope of this thread, but if you want to keep discussing them, why not answer the question and explain what I linked?
^ Yes, both these points are crucial to remember as we move through the primaries and beyond.
Journalists, as individuals, may be committed to high ideals of reporting the facts—but careers are made by finding and encouraging and selling conflict. And they will do everything they can to divide Democrats–not out of ideology, but out of the same self-interest that motivates all humans. Get a quote from Candidate X trashing Candidate Y…that’s all that matters! We must count on this happening, and be smart about it.
Online, many paid operatives will be posing as something they’re not (as you lay out in the quoted post, Ann Hedonia). And many of us will be tempted to either add to the vitriol, or to drop out and stop paying attention, sickened by the (manufactured) bitterness. We can’t do either.
I suspect that Russia is preparing a social media-driven propaganda war in which they try to convince supporters of Sanders, Yang, and Gabbard that the Democratic party establishment is rigging the system. If Bernie loses, there will probably a lot of botnet attacks that suggests to his supporters that the election was stolen from them. That’s why as much as I like Bloomberg, I’m ambivalent about his entry and possible success because I don’t think a brokered convention works out well for him or for progressives as a whole if he turns out to be the winner.
I don’t blame Bernie Sanders - he’s entitled to his positions, and he’s been saying the same thing for the past 30 years. But his running a campaign of radical change and revolution, and it’s going to be hard to convince revolutionaries that they need to accept someone who’s bland by comparison. I buy Sanders’ sincerity, but unfortunately, it’s just the nature of his campaign and the times we live in that would make a reconciliation easy.
And that’s why I think Trump has a good chance to win, regardless of how bad his polls look now. If Trump’s approval ratings can hit 45%, that’s within his range to pull off a victory. Trump may poll lower, but his voters’ enthusiasm will probably be higher.
For two decades now I have been warning people that using their irony meters within ten feet of the Internet voids the warranty.
I do hope you’ve all paid attention, because otherwise a bunch of warranties just got voided.
It seems you’re being pretty vicious to somebody on the internet who you don’t seem to know much about. Bernie Sanders supporter, by any chance?
Oh, ok, thanks for the update. Try holding your breath!
“So horrid,” “corporatist Republican-lite,” did they say to you? Man, that sounds like a more important argument than the one you and me were having, so it’s cool with me if you focus on that one for now.
But it’s not all Republicans or Russian Twitter Bots or whatever.
Today, someone broke the “news” that a former Buttigieg staffer was hired as the Voter Protection Director for the Nevada DNC. Naturally, all the usual suspects started screaming conspiracy and fraud over this and have gotten this woman to lock her social media accounts with their harassment and flooding phone lines with their calls. And cheering themselves on that this is a huge victory that they managed to call some woman corrupt and scream her off the internet. For, you know, wanting to protect people’s voting rights.
The actual role “Voter Protection Director” is a benign one with no actual power over the votes or tallies. You can read some job descriptions here and here and here. They’re all basically the same thing. There’s no smoke here but the Bernie Bros are out in force, screaming fire at this woman. And, sure, some of them might be “fake”. But the Sanders supporters I’ve talked to tonight aren’t Russian bots and they’re still all convinced that it must be hinky and get offended when you compare these actions to those of Gamergate and similar activities. Not a one has unequivocally said “Man, this is fucked up”. And, no, I’m not interested in someone here speaking for them – I want to know why none of them did it. And how I’m supposed to be excited by a guy who attracts these sorts of people.
I better not talk bad about them though! They’re the future of America and might stay home instead of voting! Yay!
There’s just something about someone telling you to get cancer and die that makes me not really give a fuck about feefees.
A big Thank You to Mr. Chitwood and Ms. margin for responding to my requests for comment. I could have hoped for more intelligent responsive comments, but the whole thread is instructive. Instructive of how low American politics have descended.
I am being attacked by Both a Bernie Brat, and a Hater of Bernie Brats! My crimes? Googling and reporting the objective facts I find. Wow.
I’d like a show of hands, please. How many readers of this thread have lumped me with the Bernieholes?
I admit that I indulge in somewhat more hyperbole and sarcasm than do more sober sources. ***But the descriptions of Biden’s plan inside the quote box was copied verbatim from soberer sources, mostly Npr.Org.
YOU*** are the one who condemned Biden’s plan with “Biden opposes the radical change we’re talking about… He opposes it. He has an entirely different agenda. Biden is Robert Byrd.” YOU imply that Biden is “Republican-Lite.” But faced with the task of criticizing details of Biden’s rather left-wing plan you have nothing better to say than “Try holding your breath!”
If you’re the intelligent face of Bernieism, Chitwood, then I guess I don’t want to climb on the Bernie-Bus after all.
I didn’t condemn anything. I’m operating within the comparison you made. I don’t care what you think about Joe Biden’s healthcare plan. I haven’t criticized it. You are free to love it. You are free to love Joe Biden.
What I said is that single-payer and the elimination of private healthcare are critical components of Bernie Sanders’ model for government, and Joe Biden opposes them. He is not a good example of a moderate who will enact Sanders’ agenda, because he will never try. Private health insurance is antithetical to the Sanders view of the right to healthcare. It is a part of Biden’s plan. So telling someone that Biden’s plan is just like the one they want, but for the real world, is a fundamental misunderstanding of what they want. For someone who wants an actual restructuring of the systems of economic distribution that govern their lives, Biden’s model isn’t just, like, slightly to the right of them. It is on a different axis.
You responded by demonstrating that, in fact, Joe Biden opposes the things I said he did, and demonstrating exactly the phenomenon I was talking about by then suggesting that Biden’s plan was still pretty much the same as Sanders’, only better.
As for you taking your ball and going home, that’s cool with me. If you got the impression I was trying to change your mind about whether you should be a Sanders supporter, that’s my mistake. We’re a big tent party!
Yeah, and there may be something about being called a brat, a whiner, a bot, a hypocrite, a child, a little princess throwing a hissy fit, and worst of all a Trump supporter, that may also raise peoples’ hackles.
The difference, of course, is that when you call names, you’re just telling THE TROOF, right?
Or maybe, just maybe, folks who support Sanders who are calling names are no worse than folks who support other candidates who are calling names, and both groups should knock it the fuck off instead of saying BUT HE HIT ME FIRST!!!
All this bickering, childish as it is, is intramural. What matters is who stays home and who comes out to vote for the Democratic nominee, regardless of who that may be. Do you agree that the threat to stay home has been more often made by some of the more ardent Sanders supporters? Now, if that’s just bravado talking then fine, they can have their spiteful little threats. But if it’s not… and it’s been cited that it may not just be empty threats… then maybe some of this name calling is not entirely without merit.
I’d say that the difference is that calling someone a brat isn’t nearly on the same tier as “I hope you get cancer and die a slow, horrible death, but not before witnessing the slow, horrible deaths of everyone you love” but, you know, we wouldn’t really be able to play the “everyone was wrong” card if that were the case.
That fool got a deserved note. Things don’t need to be on the same tier of wrong to still be wrong.
I’m not sure what you mean by “merit” here. If there are people who are not persuaded that it’s a good idea to vote for the Democratic candidate, but who are thinking about doing so if it’s Sanders, are you suggesting that calling them a whole litany of names is a great strategy to persuade them to vote for the Democratic candidate? Like, you’re gonna shame them into becoming loyal Democrats? Insult them into agreeing with you?
I’m pretty convinced any such strategy is entirely without merit. I’ve never seen it work.
If your strategy is to vent your frustration in a way that sabotages the Democratic party in particular and our world in general, though, sure, I see the merit in that approach.
Should probably be on the same tier when used as a direct comparison though.
“Sure, that guy wished you a painful death and the death of your family but what about the time you said someone was acting petulant, hrm? Ever think of that?”
I am happy to concede this point. Internet Tough Guy wishing a painful death on people is way worse than calling them whiny children hypocrite hissy-fit bot princesses throwing tantrums until they get a hand job.
I’m still pretty disgusted by folks who do the latter.
I’m disgusted by people who threaten to stay home and let Trump run his xenophobic, nationalist, environment-raping, LGBT-rights eroding, government for the rich continue for another four years because they got their feelings hurt but I suppose everyone has their own thresholds for disgust.
You know what? I have room in my heart for disgust for everyone acting poorly. I don’t have to join a team.
So here’s the problem with that : it’s a race to just above the slimiest. It’s exactly how my dearest President got elected. It’s how Chirac got elected before him. “At least we’re not the actual, open Nazis !”. And while Macron has pretended to justify his policies at first, these days his only respons to the 75% of people who fucking hate his fucking guts and everything he’s doing is, and I’m neither joking nor exaggerating : “be happy you’re not under dictatorship”.
Because of course Trump is shit. But then you vote for Whoever, who’s shit but still slightly less shit than Trump so obviously they get the vote, because, you know, Trump. And the next one is just that inch closer to Trump - they’re just not going Full Trump, not just yet. But they’re still a little Trumpish, you know, for those swing voters. And so on, and so forth. The Trump asymptote.
At what point, exactly, does your support for “well at least he’s not 100% Hitler ?” waver ? If the Democratic candidate is Donald Trump without the ridiculous fake tan, is he still better enough to scold the childish fucking Bernie Bros ?