(I also like the combination “grassroots movements start from the bottom up !” “what kind of top down establishment support y’all movements got ?” argument, it’s a p. spicy meat-a-ball)
Utterly clueless. You’re out of your depth here.
I know it’s not been very long since you made this offer, but I’m wondering if you’ve had anybody take you up on it.
I mean… ACA and gay marriage. But I’m sure those don’t count for some reason even though protection for pre-existing conditions and marriage equality wouldn’t have happened in a million years under a GOP president.
In a free democratic election, the people deserve the government they get. It has always been thus. But that is just an old aphorism. Washing your hands of it won’t solve the problem any more than sweeping racists or mad B-bros (no intended equation) under the rug. I get the temptation to want to pacify the bigoted assholes who happen to ostensibly be ‘on your side’ when there is so much at stake. But I think it behooves people to try to be less hypocritical about behaving as if the ends justifying the means. Once again, to the chagrin of some, I bring up the traditional Republicans and conservatives who justifiably (or not) got painted with the broad brush of Trump cultism and all that it entails. I caution my fellow liberals/progressives/Dems not to excuse the Bernie-or-Bust asshattery when it is revealed. Yes, Bernie Sanders would be infinitely better than Trump and possibly better than some Dem contenders. But if he is not the nominee, taking your bat and ball home makes you a what again? Correct: a petulant fucking twat! So stop pretending you’re helping the progressive cause and fuck your feelings.*
(*Not directed at you, K2. Just staying on topic of the thread.)
Ahem… WE get to trash our political system and vilify our government. YOU don’t, cheese-eating surrender monkey.
This. A million times this.
I grew up near New York City, then lived in freakin’ Berkeley, California…and then a decade in Kansas, and half a decade in Wisconsin (not Madison).
I agree with nearly every GOAL that Sanders espouses…BUT I am keenly aware of the realities of the voting public in this country, that my friends who stayed in New York and California JUST. DON’T. GET.
(This was in reply to asahi’s post:
“ Bernie believes that he can just transform everything, and so do his voters.
If Bernie happens to become president, he’s going to have to work with Mitch McConnell – and he’s going to have to convince Republicans that they should be scared of losing their jobs if they don’t pass massive tax increases and end private insurance as we know it.
People who hated Hillary and disappointed with Barack Obama just don’t get it - they are not the problem. It’s their idiot neighbors who are the problem. This country is hopelessly stupid. In the meantime, we’re all better off with incremental progress than regression at warp speed.”)
I’m trying to quote #165, but it just won’t work.
That article you cited just proved my point. Lots of platitudes and drama----very much like Bernie himself----but, again, the last thing he did for POC was fifty-odd years ago. “Chained himself to black women”? If he had done so, I’m sure a little birdie would have gotten that out to his worshipful groupies by now.
Kobal2 made good points about how Obama was less forceful than he could have been regarding closing the Gitmo detention center, maybe with Merrick Garland (though I don’t see what else he could have done), etc. But, that doesn’t mean a Sanders type could just ram through big changes.
Some of the worst damage Trump has done is by appointing heads of federal agencies (etc.) who are literally opposed to the mandate of their agency. What’s the opposite of this? Simply appointing people who can DO THEIR FREAKING JOB. Trump is ruining everything by being shitty at everything, thus “accomplishing” what his followers say they want. This isn’t a template that a progressive can follow. You can’t accomplish progressive goals merely by being shitty at everything, but in the opposite direction.
He’s right, though - Europe has completely eradicated left-wing antisemitism.
…you’re being sarcastic, right?
Yes. Yes I am.
Fair point 
I’m sorry did you… did you just tell a French person to *not *be snooty and patronizing towards foreigners ? What fresh nonsense will you expect of me next, strict monogamy ?!
God, no. But for chrissake, stop making [del]movies[/del], sorry,* films*.
Wait a fucking minute there. A lot of us USED TO BE moderate somewhere in the middle type Dems. We weren’t “far” anything or “extreme” anything —
UNTIL THEY MOVED THE FUCKING GOALPOSTS. I lean toward left and liberal, but I sense that I fail your “purity test” too.
You just better not throw your own vote away over ideological bullshit. ONCE WAS ENOUGH.
Second that.
An exceptionally good, down-to-earth article, published a few days ago:
Why Democrats share the blame for the rise of Donald Trump
by Robert Reich
(Reich served in the administrations of Presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Bill Clinton. He was Secretary of Labor from 1993 to 1997. He was a member of President Barack Obama’s economic transition advisory board.)
Why didn’t Obama pursue his post 2012 re-election promise to overturn Citizens United?? That has got to be one of the most disingenuous questions Robert Reich has ever asked. With what fucking congressional support was Obama going to get that passed when Republican congress members had already declared him a one term president and pretty much obstructed what color suit he would be permitted to wear.
Honestly… Robert Reich can be such a wanker.