Yes and it matters precisely zilch which Democratic nominee primary voters in the south favor because the nominee won’t win any of those states:smack:
Wow the polls worked out pretty well?!? Sure, if we were in a parliamentary system it might be okay, but here losing is losing and that’s that. Polls only show part of the picture anyway. Like Michael Moore said back then if people could vote from their couch Hillary would have won. Being motivated to actually get to the polls is everything. Which is why the Republicans will fight tooth and nail to deny people the opportunity to vote by mail, because that’s Biden’s only chance of winning.
No, we think that because when people get to know Biden better (NAFTA support, making it nearly impossible to discharge student loan debt in bankruptcy, etc.) many people will just not bother to vote.
Those chickens still need a good fucking, I guess. :smack:
Okay, fine. For the sake of argument, let’s take this as a truth:
**Many Democrats will decide not to vote at all once the wool has been pulled from their eyes about Biden. This will throw the election to Trump.
**
Since the purpose of this thread is to pull said wool from our eyes, how can your posts be interpreted as anything other than an active attempt to dissuade Democrats from voting for Joe Biden?
Given what an absolute disaster that will be for the climate, for immigrants, for women’s rights, for unions, and for pretty much every segment of humanity other than the ultra-rich, I hope you’ll devote yourself tirelessly to persuading people to vote.
Yes. I don’t think you understand how polls work or how to read them.
Good thing our nominee is the guy who motivated the most people to go out and vote then, huh? Could you imagine if the other guy won? The one who fills rallies and gets people all jazzed up on Reddit and then gets maybe 20% of them to actually go outside and cast a ballot?
“Democracy is dumb, only the ‘right’ voters actually count”
Maybe re-think that one, eh?
Yes. Sanders couldn’t beat Hillary Clinton in 2016 and he couldn’t beat Joe Biden in 2020. But somehow he was going to beat Donald Trump.
I’ve said it before:
Biden supporters voted for Biden.
Trump supporters voted for Trump.
Sanders supporters complained that other people didn’t vote for Sanders.
They’re all in on it maaaan!!!
Don’t you get it maaaan? This is the one time in history when America may elect a full blown socialist because he is the lesser evil. We only have to be a little bit worse than Trump so we need the most socialist person who has a chance to beat Trump because there isn’t enough of a difference between Trump and Biden to make the juice worth the squeeze!
These voters have been around my entire life, we have won elections without their help for my entire life. Why are they so important now? Why would we risk losing nmoderate voters to pander to this slim groupof radical voters who won’t vote for us next time around unless we maintain a radical agenda?
You all act like voting for Bernie was done in a vacuum. When establishment Democrats and the corporate owned media constantly use words like “cranky, unelectable, far-left, socialist (shudder),” etc. while failing to use words for the supposedly moderate candidates like “factory job destroying, bank-loving, credit card company loving, conservative, militarist, lip-service on the environment” etc., instead telling people how “moderate, reasonable, and electable” they are it is certainly going to have an effect. If the tide were turned and Bernie got the fawning coverage while the barrage were directed at Biden I suppose the voting would have went the same way. If anyone says they believe that they’re either stupid or lying.
Michigan Pennsylvania and Wisconsin were the only real surprises.
Nevada was a surprise in Clinton’s favor.
So your argument is we should go with the guy who is polling WORSE because THAT’s the key to winning?
How in the world do you think Bernie can win the general when he can’t even win the primary? That sort of argument can only be made by a moderate who has crossover appeal. What do you think will happen? A bunch of swing voters and Republicans will vote for Bernie?
I think he should entirely ignore the radical left. We can’t afford to lose moderates that actually vote for young radicals that do not.
All things being equal a radical that loses in the primary has no chance of doing better than a moderate that wins the primary. The radical is very unlikely to get more crossover or swing voters than the moderate.
My guess is he’s a sock for the banned poster who went by the name Barack Obama. Sanders was his wet dream, and this is just him coming back to be a poor loser. Emphasis on “loser.”
Maybe they should only count for 3/5 of a white Bernie bro.
Just glad this wasn’t an actual Doper.
Go away, Trumpbot. You can’t will Biden into losing, nor are we stupid enough to take your bait.
There is no reason now to try and undermine the current Democratic nominee except to help Trump win.
So how’d he win the nomination?
What is this OP’s beef with credit card companies?
Yes, sure. This logic doesn’t hold up. Hillary vs Trump and Bernie vs Trump are entirely different races than Bernie vs Hillary. They have different factors that go into them.
To use a simplified hypothetical, let’s say that there are groups A B and C. Group A is 15% of the population, group By is 40% of the population, group C is the remaining 45%. These numbers are for demonstration purposes.
Group B are the party-line democrats. Vote blue no matter who. Group C are the party line republicans. Group A are a little trickier. They’re a mix of left and anti-establishment, but not democrats. They don’t really like the democratic party. Some will vote democrat, but a lot of them are simply turned off to even participating in the system.
If a candidate that group A likes runs against a candidate that group B likes in group B’s own party, the candidate for group B will win. Group B will then all vote for their candidate, and group A will not. Group B loses to group C.
But imagine if they nominated the candidate group A wants. Well, since it’s group B’s party, and they all pledged to be good little group Bs and vote for whoever the candidate was, then the disaffected group A gets to vote for their candidate, and the group B dutifully votes for that candidate. The combined powers of group A and B defeat C easily.
Now - in the real world - it’s more complex. The candidate that A likes may scare off some of the group B voters. I get that. But saying “Hillary beat Bernie, and Hillary lost to Trump, therefore Bernie would’ve lost to Trump” is wrong. The factors and groups involved in the general election are not the same as those involved in the primary. You could very well have one candidate who could beat the other in a primary, but the one who would lose the primary would fare better in the general election.
I think we definitely saw that in 2016. Trump tapped into a lot of “fuck the system” votes from people who feel like they’re losing ground in our society and they just wanted to shake stuff up. Either for spite, as some sort of protest, or because they really thought having an outsider in there who wasn’t part of the establishment would be good for the country. That’s not the only reason people voted for Trump, but it was a big one.
Bernie undercuts that narrative entirely. Even though he’s a career politician, he is very much non-establishment. The establishment fears Bernie more than they fear Trump. In a time when the sentiment was anti-establishment, the democrats ran the most establishment candidate ever against someone perceived as being an outsider, and that hugely boosted Trump. Having Bernie run against Trump completely undercuts that “fuck it, let’s shake up the system” reason for voting. It gives people who want to register an anti-establishment vote a chance to do that with someone who is not a pile of human garbage.
I think Bernie would’ve won in 2016. I think Biden will actually do worse than Hillary did because he’s losing his marbles. I think they’re hiding him away right now and it will only become apparent how much he’s declined closer to the election, which will end up doing more damage. I’m not sure if Bernie would’ve won in 2020, but I think his chances are better than what Biden’s will be.