Imapuna and LoadedDog: Go to the Search button. Type “Libertarian” in the space for member’s name.
Type “Cherokee” in the other space. Observe the results.
This is the second time in the last few days I’ve seen Squish refer to a desire to have “boy parts”, in quotation marks like that both times. I find that an odd turn of phrase. Is there some inside joke I’m missing here?
Anyway, after looking at it, anyone who was able to wade through that Tubadiva thread has got plenty of time on their hands. If Lib wants to drop a little ethnic non sequitur into a thread on the Pit before he heads back to GD for the week, it wouldn’t really bother me. But heck, that’s what the Pit is here for, the airing of grievances for those of us who don’t celebrate Festivus. When we can no longer do that, it’s no longer the Pit, and I’d start to lose interest in the board. So I guess I can’t complain.
Mapache,
…and what the-flaming-devil-with-two-toes-in-his-ass was your point with that little search exercise? To prove that Lib, with obvious knowledge of his ancestral culture knows how to answer questions about the Cherokee language? Or was it a little act of vandalism aimed to slow the boards down?
In both cases I’m a sucker. I searched [sub](sorry hamsters, I’m a curious animal)[/sub].
I have been enlightened! Praise Mapache the enlightened from Oaxaca! I now know several things about the Cherokee language, as in that it had had an alphabet, as in that the word Yankee supposedly is Cherokee… whatever!
The relevance is zilch zip and zero to the OP, so anyone who read this far before clicking search, save yourself and the hamsters the trouble.
Sparc
Go to the Search button. Type “Sparc” in the space for member’s name. Type “Sweden” in the other space. Observe the results.
Sorta-kind of. In an episode of the TV show LEXX, “Love Grows” a genetically engineered virus causes the crew members (well, except for the dead guy and the robot head) to reserve sex parts. Stan, who is a lovable loser, exclaims in shock, “I–I’ve got–girl parts!” Since I feel pretty androgynous most of the time (although I don’t look at all androgynous) and since I like beautiful men, there are times when I wish I had “boy parts.” 
Sparc, I believe the point of Mapache’s exercise was in reply to the comments made that people didn’t know of Libertarian’s ethnicity or that he had only mentioned it once or twice.
That should have read “reverse sex parts.” Mea culpa.
I find four such threads in the past year in GD. One instance is a Sweet Willy thread where (having not read all the thread, I first must tell you … I saw QUITE enough of him in the Pit to willingly read his tripe again, barring Act of God or Congress) Libertarian offers SW an alternative to becoming a Jew (which I took to be a hijack for the purpose of letting emotions and such calm down).
A second was Libertarian (in a thread on Libertaria) thanking a poster for said poster’s kindness to him through everything he is, including his heritage. I would compare this to Esprix or matt_mcl, as secure as they are in various aspects of their existence, expressing appreciation to someone else for that person’s acceptance and appreciation of who they are (I think Polycarp does this on occasion in GD and elsewhere, though I’ve used the search engine enough today as it is for this thread alone!).
Another was a thread on Andrew Jackson where a point dealing with the Trail of Tears and other instances of uprooting of Cherokee people and Jackson’s actions involving them and court decisions was made. I find it no more unnecessary to see Libertarian in that thread than I would find it unnecessary to see SuaSponte or Billdo (boy, if any of y’all do does a vanity search tomorrow yer gonna be puuuuuzled!) in a thread on legal issues, or Jonathan Chance or RTFirefly discussing baseball with BobT.
And the last was a bit of a hijack on another poster’s use of the phrase “Native American”, which I can certainly understand. I still don’t see justification of “You’ve played the race card so often, when it should not have been played even once.” But that’s partially because I don’t see as Lib, in those GD threads, as playing any sort of card re: his heritage.
Okay, I went and did a search on Libertarian and Cherokee (sorry if anyone couldn’t use the boards for a bit, that was me … I found so many threads, after all). 12 threads in the past year. 5 in GQ, 4 in GD, 2 in the Pit, and one in Cafe Society.
In short: still not in the same ballpark as convinced of the OP.
Technically, it has a syllabary, not an alphabet. It does have a written form, including a few newspapers printed in that form.
Yes, thanks. That does indeed help me to understand where you’re coming from. God go with you, my dear.
<raised eyebrow> Would one care to elaborate, or would one prefer to indulge in a drive-by posting that only allows me to infer the worst of you?
I think you’ve already taken your inference, and I don’t think anything I post (since nothing I ever have posted) would mollify you. Where is someone who can look out their penthouse window and see Harlem coming from? Where is someone who says that some of his best friends are gay coming from?
I’m proud of my heritage, and I assure you that I need no advice from you with respect to it. Come walk in my shoes. When you’ve done that, then you will come from a place that matters.
I harbor no ill-will toward you. I take it that you felt a need to make a criticism and did so. You’ve done it. I’ve responded. So what now? Do you mean to draw blood? Do you want an apology? Are you offended? What’s the dealio?
Sparc: What exactly is your problem? Some posters claimed that Lib had only mentioned his ethnic background “one or two times”. I pointed out that they were mistaken. They were.
You can take your hamsters and felch them, as far as I’m concerned.
Sometimes people just ‘get off’ on trying to take on a well-respected poster. Gives them some sense of importance or a false sense of earning respect from others. Most of the time, as is the case with this thread, it just makes them look ill-informed and silly. But hey, gave them the chance to start a new thread, even though most of the posts have been in total disagreement with the OP.
But don’t pay any attention to me. I happen to have an extreme prejudice where Lib is concerned. I think he’s an outstanding poster, even though I don’t always agree with his ideas and the way that he states them, I still respect his right to do so on this board.
Much though I might enjoy a Harper Lee reference (intended or not) under any circumstances, Lib, this is the sort of holier-than-thou attitude that may be annoying to others. I know it’s annoying to me.
We all walk different paths. And to assume that one is superior to another is the height of arrogance. I could just as easily claim that if one hasn’t walked in my shoes (Chicago-born Jew who spent 3.5 years as a ward of the Maryland ‘correctional’ system) you’re place isn’t ‘better’ than mine.
Lo–er, Lib, I live in a penthouse all right. :rolleyes: No one I know has ever used the term “Injun”; hell, I’ve never heard the term except in old Westerns or by Indians who are playing the “gosh, I’m so oppressed” bit–a sad, tired old bit that your last post just confirmed. And ultress, it was that attitude from Lib that pissed me off and prompted this thread. Fuck that shit. I’m a human being, Lib is a human being and that is all that fucking matters. Not who did what to who, because everybody did something nasty to somebody else as far back as recorded history, and before. Shit, I’m proud of my heritage, too, but you don’t hear me wailing about those horrible Mongols and Tartars.
Great! Now I’m going to have images of that old UL about Richard Gere in my head all day…
- Mapache, just report your findings
- Report them only when they a relevant to the topic
For a member with 6 908 posts that might as well be ‘one or two times’. To boot a good number of those were factual answers about Cherokee culture and not references to ethnicity. More importantly no one claimed that Lib had only mentioned it ‘one or two times’. Some members actually did point out knowledge of references to that effect made by Lib.
Add that this so tired. The debate that started the whole sordid mess is tired. Jumping people for making reference to their ethnicity is so spent that it should be asleep. Slamming members that spend considerable effort in arguing complex and thoughtful matters for being a little curt at times is exhausted. Pit threads on Libertarian is so ‘this week’s fad’ that by now we have enough of them to throw a slumber party. Squish’s place perhaps?
It’s all part of the great run-of-the-middle-bitch-club attitude and as such I loathe it.
All that and the implicit smugness in your tone Mapache is my problem.
What exactly is your problem?
Sparc
Maybe it’s that I know Lib a few shades deeper than you do, Squish, or maybe it’s that I still don’t see justification for your OP[sub]And the first person to come out with that “He doesn’t need a reason, it’s the Pit” can go read the post of mine in this very thread where I said I don’t see justification for the way he said what he said OR, in fact, what he said[/sub], but … you know, I just can’t complete that sentence. Not that it should matter three teaspoons to you, but I … I’m really not seeing, except in that one thread, and as I’ll say for the third time (and you, though you don’t have to do so, have yet to justify it) I don’t see the brunt of your OP borne out anywhere.
And Mapache, I think, from re-reading the posts in this thread, that people were saying they could only recall Lib making reference to his Cherokee heritage once or twice, which is quite a different thing indeed from either actually saying “he’s only mentioned it once or twice” AND “he plays the race card all the time/a lot”. If someone played that card a lot, you can pretty safely bet that those people who read GD or GQ and the Pit a lot would have said something, though I bet a lot of them would have done it in a more pleasant way than you did.
Finally, Squish, there is this thing called an analogy, which is the first thing you addressed in your most recent post. Nowhere in any post in this thread has Libertarian made the clain that you live in a penthouse. He made an analogy to someone who lived in a penthouse. Saying that and saying that you live in a penthouse are zipcodes away from each other.
Are you really sure this isn’t just an attempt to find something to bash someone (maybe, particularly, Lib, but not necessarily) with? Because it’s looking weak from this corner (though, again, you’re certainly under no obligation to care what I say).
And finally, a strange sort of realization to Libertarian … it is in the strangest of places that I find myself learning more about you, and as a result coming to like you more and more, however much I may disagree with you on some things (as ultress said … you’re free to believe as you wish and the majority of your posts I’ve read have been informed and seeking to learn and to educate).
There’s one other besides this one. Be a damned boring slumber party. I’ve already acknowledged that my “so often” in the OP was an overstatement (and yes, iampunha, I did make that acknowledgement, if you’d care to read my posts). If you’re going to take Mapache to task for what you see as an overstatement, perhaps you’d be advised not to do the same.
Yes, I do know very well that Lib was making an analogy (one first made in the 1960s), but that analogy was misplaced. I live among Indians; I’ve worked with Indians and, in fact, for an Indian-run organization; I’ve dated Indians. I am far removed from the white Manhattan groupies of the Black Panthers in the '60s. As Jonathan Chance put it:
.
Finally, I didn’t open this thread just to bash someone. I have targeted only two posters in BBQ Pit threads; the first, because I wanted to make comments on some comments she’d made and I didn’t think any other forum was appropriate, and this one, because that “picking on the Injun” comment really pissed me off.
Y’know, even if Lib inappropriately played the “race card” in that thread, that is one of the most vile comments I’ve ever had the misfortune to read on this or any message board.
Congratualtions. You’ve managed, with one disgusting sentence, to combine elements of homophobia and rape into one vile metaphor.
Threatening to anally rape someone even “metaphorically” because you don’t like a comment they made is sick. What the fuck does it have to do with his argument anyway?
IF I was on your side to begin with, you’ve completely lost me with that comment.
Frankly I think you owe Lib an apology.
Fenris
I was thinking much the same thing when I read the OP. Sickening.
And clearly enough, it seems to me, Libertarian just happens to be a convenient target for the deeper hostility behind the OP.
I would have to say that Lib did play the race card inappropriately in the one thread. Seems especially bizarre considering his supposed disdain for people feeling pity for him because of his race. No one had said anything to him about his heritage in that thread, and they were piling on him beccause he was being overly sensitive. He called people jackals and such, and when they defended themselves (albeit aggressively - this is the pit), he pulled out the “Sure, just attack the Injun why don’t ya!” bit (paraphrased - not direct quote). Poor form. It doesn’t help that I think that his position in that thread was foolish to begin with. Then, instead of answering peoples reasonable points with the same level of reason and debate he answered with judgment, “go away” statements, and then the race card.
I loved the way that thread worked out. A bad call was made by Tuba, people asked for an explanation, a fairly insulting one was given, people complained, Tuba, I assume, read these sincere complaints, reconsidered and rectified the problem. Awesome. Had Lib had it his way then perhaps this discourse and wonderful resolution would not have occured.
So he took a counter-productive stance in my book and then when called on it resorted to a “pity me - I’m an indian being attacked by all you tyrants” type of bit. Bullshit. He made a stupid point. Anger was justified, and I approve of the way it was expressed by the majority of posters (in the forum designed for such sentiments). Lib’s behaivior in that thread pissed me off.
All that said, I think the OP here did hit a little too hard. I have never seen him do this before, and I have read many of his posts. I wouldn’t call it a pattern, more like a one-time lapse. Offensive, but not common.
And I think Squish’s “insulting hyperbole” at the beginning was fine. I doubt she is a racist, or homophobe, or even a rapist. Once Lib brought up race inappropriately, I say this comment was fair game. The PC crowd, I’m sure, will disagree (failing to consider the speakers intentions).
Wow, that’s alot of debates I hit here. Playing the race card, poster behaivior, pit behaivior, Tuba’s recent actions, derogatory statements being OK based on context, and Lib’s oversensitivity. . . .
How do you spell can of worms?
DaLovin’ Dj