I can’t help but think of the world of business here. In any negotiation, the one who needs the deal less has all the power.
In other words, if the seller really wants to sell, the buyer has the power, and of course, vice versa.
Good relationships are negotiations. Bad relationships are dictatorships.
Watch how they treat “the little people”–the waitress, the ticket seller, the guy who accidentally bumps into you. If you hook up with this person, at some point he’ll be treating you the same way.
There are three signs of losing control: yelling and swearing, throwing things, hitting people. If they hit step 2, DO NOT WAIT for step 3.
And if they hit you, leave. Do not take the “it’s your fault, you made me, it won’t happen again” bullshit.
This is one that always worries me. As much as I want to be able to say “the moment someone lays a finger on me or I think they’re about to I’m out of there and I wouldn’t look back” we don’t know how we’ll feel when the situation occurs until it’s upn us. Having listened to a lot of stories of people who’ve experienced violence in their relationships, some of which have come from very strong minded individuals, I can’t say with absolute certainty that I would be any different.
Intense lust & passion isn’t love, but if you learn to recognize it for what it is, it can be damned fun.
Wow, this thread is going way into negative territory. Hitting (and not in a good way), emotional abuse, power (and not in a good way, and yes, there is a good way), red flags, jealousy…
There are positive lessons to be learned.
-Two trees can thrive side by side without having to block out each other’s sunlight. Giving each other space can strengthen the relationship dramatically.
-Cuddling is sometimes more satisfying than sex. And foreplay can be a destination in itself, not just a means to an end.
-LISTEN! When women complain, they’re not always looking for solutions, just validation.
-It’s OK not to have an agenda. There’s a tremendous amount of joy in just being present with each other. That goes whether or not there is a bed nearby.
-The tip of the tongue on a nipple feels far better than full-on slathering. (YMMV)
-Prepare for each date as if it’s the first, even if you’ve been together for years.
-Take full responsibility (not the same as blame) for every aspect of your relationships.
-Compliment seldom, but make it sincere and from the heart.
-Letting go is far more attractive than holding on tight.
-Silk scarves make the best handcuffs.
That made my day - thanks 
Thank you for that! When I started this thread, I really didn’t want it to go negative, but threads are so organic, I didn’t want to disrupt the flow.
Oh, you’re welcome! I truly believe that one can learn far more from relationships than how to be jaded and bitter. I’ve taken away something positive and constructive from every relationship I’ve been in. Even those that failed in the first 3 seconds of interaction contained positive lessons.
Measure twice, cut once.
Dead solid perfect, Annie.
If I may add a few I’ve picked up on also:
First dates are best in a new enviroment for both, not the usual haunts. The ability to go somewhere new, with a brand new person can be unusually rewarding.
If your date’s only topic of conversation is about themself, the relationship is likely to be the same way.
Obsession over an ex is perhaps the only topic more boring than the one above.
Self-depreciating humor is the stuff of genius.
Wants and needs can be confusing at times; my best (and current) relationship partner helps me sort these out, and I for her the same.
The ability to laugh at one’s self: amazing.
The desire to always put one’s self down (humorously or otherwise): not so much.
I laugh at myself all day long - but I also have to be careful not to put myself down before “someone else gets a chance to” - like making sure they know I know I’m fat (but fabulous) and old and have a tendencey to be a little airheaded in public.
Yeah, there’s a really fine line there. If you can show that you don’t take yourself too seriously, great. If you constantly berate yourself, that can get really old really fast. Doubly so if you do it to fish for compliments or reassurance.
:shudder:
I hate to pick on my ex-wife again, but I swear to Jebus there are times I felt like her only source of moral support. Her favorite question was “Why do you love me?” I learned really early on that I wasn’t allowed to repeat answers, and after several years of being asked several times a week, I really started to ask myself the same question.
My girlfriend asked me fairly early on in our dating why I love her, and I put a stop to it right there. “Sorry, I don’t answer that question any more. Here’s why …” She understood, and thereby made herself even more wonderful in my eyes. Hasn’t asked since. Eleven months Sunday.
I haven’t dated in freaking ages, and I’ve been married now for going on 9 years, but I’ll add my lessons from my relationship (and others I’ve observed) to the party. I’m a married woman, so I’ll be using “he” a lot below; please substitute the appropriate pronoun for your situation.
You should respect each other. You can disagree, but there should be mutual respect there. If there isn’t, maybe this isn’t the relationship for you.
Don’t disrespect your partner in public, whether he’s there or not. You can joke about him, or tell amusing anecdotes, but you don’t disrespect him. If you find yourself doing this, maybe this isn’t the relationship for you.
Trust is key. I trust my husband implicitly in all things, and never worry about where he is or who he’s with. (Granted, I haven’t been really hurt, by him or others, before either.) If you can’t trust him, perhaps maybe this isn’t the relationship for you.
Having things that you keep separate or private from each other is OK. He’ll play poker with his friends, I’ll have a girl’s night with mine. Our finances are mingled, but I’d never go into his email unless he asked me to for whatever reason. Such things allow each other to have their own space and help keep the relationship fresh. If you can’t do this, or if you can’t see yourself as a separate person outside the relationship, maybe this isn’t the relationship for you.
“Rule #1: Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt.”
Stranger
As for life lessons that I’ve personally learned at least partially from dating:
Rule #2: “This, too, will pass.”
Rule #4: “Water is the universal solvent of life. When in doubt, ask for a glass of water.”
and the ever appropriate if problematic Rule #14: “Don’t mess with the help.”
Stranger
Love the thread, Mel, it gives me pause to think and is entertaining, too.
I’ve learned never to engage in workplace romance, unless either or both of us were planning a job change soon, anyway.
You can learn alot about a man by attending a sporting event with them, good or bad.
You can learn even more about a woman by asking her to go for a walk with you. Even better if it is a cloudy, drizzly day. I don’t see this as a particularly awful ruse if you then recommend doing the walking in a comfortable shopping mall. Character traits, flaws or beauty can be discovered quite quickly when spur of the moment shopping happens.
I learned I’m not half as brilliant as I thought I was, after a few hours with a woman I’m attracted to.
If you are in a budding relationship that makes you feel affirmed, better informed, empathetic, passionate, and part of something bigger and better than yourself alone, you are likely on the right track. Otherwise, if you need to examine what you and your new mate’s re;lationship is built on as its base, you might be heading down that seemingly similar slope of the previous ones…
I felt the same way for a long time after I had my heart horribly broken, twice. Like you, the more rational part of my brain told me I was giving men a bad break, but my emotional side said that men couldn’t fall in love the way I could. So I didn’t date for several years, and it turned out to be one of the best things I ever did, because it gave me time by myself to figure out who I was, what was important to me, and to work on recognizing and correcting some of my own personal shortcomings.
Eventually, I got over my cynicism about men and started dating again. I was much better at it by then, and I went on a lot of dates, and had a lot of very brief relationships, until I found someone who was a good match. Which I eventually did, and we just celebrated our two-year (dating) anniversary. The things I learned when I was dating were:
OK, lots of great stuff. Some good advice in this thread, for daters, for old marrieds, too.
I will add this, in addition to how your man treats strangers and relatives to gauge how he will treat YOU later, look at how his father treats his mother.
Also, if he shuts you out in one area of his life, he will shut you out in others. If this is OK with you, fine, but don’t assume that just because he doesn’t want you to go to a sports game or a party with him that it will stop there.
And I want to say that “one hit means you leave and never look back, no matter what” has always seemed silly to me. I am in my thirties and my husband and I have been together since we were teens. He has slapped me twice, open handed, and it did not occur to me to leave him over these mistakes. He was pushed to the edge and he reacted. Not every man is capable of getting so upset without lashing out. Do you leave because of such a lapse in judgment? I didn’t and I see no reason to. This is not abuse. Abuse is when it happens over and over or to the point that a person is injured.
If a man does that then leave.
But leave over the first smack? I think if you are in a committed and long term relationship then you have to think a bit harder than that. Will my husband smack me again in our lifetimes? Maybe. I hope not, but it’s possible. Will I get in his face and scream until he loses control? I will try not, but I know I have a temper. We all make mistakes, we try to learn and fix ourselves. Together because we love each other.
Oh, and don’t assume that a cute guy won’t be as good as a homely one. Give a cute boy a chance, you might be pleasantly surprised.
All that said, if he slaps you on a first date, THAT’S probably a bad sign.
There’s another great reason to do that. After you’ve had coffee or lunch or whatever, go for a walk. Duck into a clothing shop to look around a bit. Continue the walk, then maybe go into a furniture store or better yet a toy store. (Toy stores are great! They set up a playful mood.) Then walk some more. In one afternoon, you’ve now had 5 dates. If there’s any kind of connection at all, you’ve just deepened it a lot.
Come to think of it, just about every decent relationship I’ve had in the past couple of decades had a first date like this.
I would agree that “active” dates, like going for a walk are great, but maybe early in the relationship it’s also important to spend some down time together, too. To see if you can still interest the other person when there’s nothing interesting going on around you. And when there are no endorphins being produced and enjoyed from the physical exercise of walking. What I’m saying is, find out early if you can stand each other even on a lazy or sick day.