Listening without giving advice

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

Do you have trouble listening to someone’s personal talk without giving advice?
Do you have trouble finding someone to talk to about personal stuff who will listen without drowning you out with advice?

I find that one of my main social problems is getting too much advice from people who listen too little. My family and a few of my friends are all compulsive advisors. Seriously. I will tell them to quit giving me advice, but they display a nearly physical need to give advice, which is usually along the lines of “Change your personality, change your preferences, lower your expectations,” etc. - not exactly the sort of stuff that’s easy to do.

The rest of my friends are extremely uncomfortable with personal talk, so they have to change the subject to pro wrestling when anything personal comes up.
Boris: So I’m upset that this woman stood me up today.
Boris’ Friend: Oh. Well we’ll have to get you a hooker. Har!

By “personal”, I don’t mean really personal stuff or anything gross, I’m just talking about jobs, friends, family, health, and the like.

The obvious solution would be to not bring up any personal matters at all, but that seems sort of repressive. I think there is a common need among people to express one’s worries and disappointments, but at some point doing so became a Major Sin. So I guess I’m wondering what other people do.

2

Just start the conversation with “Do you mind if I vent? I really don’t want any advice, I just need someone to listen for a while.” If you preface the conversation with the fact that you are NOT looking for advice, you’re being as clear as possible. If they continue to butt in, don’t confide in them.

The hardest thing to do, however, is to watch someone you love make a mistake and know that you need to keep your mouth shut and let them figure it out for themselves. Keep that in mind.

3

Maybe in the TMI category from my part (or Too Much Revealed?)but…I’ve struggled with this for some time. I often interpreted the advice as a criticism of me - as if I wasn’t capable of coming up with those ideas/suggestions on my own, or somehow incapable of solving whatever on my own. Again, that is/was my interpretation, not assigning blame that this is actually going on - just how things came out after going through my particular prism. This and other personal hangups have kept me from sharing what goes on inside me for quite a while. Yes, it is repressive - and feels so - but I suppose it is a defense mechanism I have become comfortable using to avoid the perceived uncomfortable feelings that accompany sharing what goes on inside me with others.

I am, however, getting a bit better. I’ve learned (actually, I’ve been taught) to rephrase/restate what may have been misinterpreted. Even if I preface things with “I just need to vent”, sometimes the Advice From The Fixers keeps coming. For instance, if I say “You know, I feel really lousy about making a career change at my age and being stuck in a shitty job” and I get “Have you thought about going back to school for…”, I’ll now gently state "Actually, I was kind of getting at the ‘feeling lousy’ part, not the ‘what should I do part’ ". In my instance, this works pretty well with those closest to me. I’ve spent a long time not bringing up how I feel, not bringing up what really goes on inside me, that those closest are happy for the revelation and take the redirection well. They get the message that I was bring up how I feel, noy asking for advice on what to do. This only works (or at least I’m only comfortable employing it) with those closest to me. As far as friends, there are many levels of friendship, and those on the “acquaintance” end are probably a bit uncomfortable with discussions of a fairly personal nature - that is “breaking the contract”. The Acquaintance/Casual Friend Contract states that one is to keep things fairly lighthearted and general; the relationship is for entertainment purposes only. The Close Friend is for delving into the darker corners of our souls, and for dropping the mask we all wear. I’ve got a slew of Casual Friends, but really only 2 Close Friends (plus one wife) who I can talk about my fears and worries with (although a third fella is making a strong case for inclusion in the Inner Sanctum). I share these things with my close friends, and keep things pretty light with the others.
SwimmingRiddles: Yes, that is very hard, but I don’t think either one of us are talking about “mistakes”. Sometimes you just want to share feelings, and you get advice. To use Boris’ example, “I feel shitty and hurt that this woman stood me up (venting, expressing hurt/anger).” “Well, maybe next time you should…” (advice, implying it is either somehow my fault or that I’m not capable of coming up with a solution - at least those are common interpretations I come up with).
And sometimes “mistake” is purely subjective. You think it’s a mistake, and are jumping up and down to hold your tongue. I think it’s the best thing I’ve ever done. Who is right? Time will tell; neither of us know, despite the plethora of advice you may be dying to share.

Shaky Jake

4

I feel odd making any sort of suggestions to someone who is looking for listeners but not advice.
Hm.

Ok- I think that the people you are talking to probably are listening, but maybe they think that in order to prove to you that they were, they need to offer some sort of comment other than “I see.”

I have listened to my close friends vent about things and i always feel compelled to answer, even when there is no advice. Often my reply to a vent is “Oh. Well that sucks…”
It sounds like I wasn’t listening.

You don’t have to refrain from discussing personal matters, just understand that giving advuce is sometime’s a person’s way of listening.

5

I like to think I’m a pretty good listener. I have three approaches when friends need to dump on me, and it all depends on what they say they need or the response I get after a little exploration:

1.) Commiseration and sympathy. Ah, geez, Boris, that sucks! I hate it when that sort of thing happens. Some people just don’t have any consideration. You want some chocolate chip cookies? Fresh out of the oven . . .

2.) Encouragement and validation. You know, Boris, anyone who would pull that crap doesn’t deserve you. You are quite the studly guy. Somewhere out there is a lady who’ll make you happy. Want some chocolate chip cookies? Fresh out of the oven . . .

3.) Constructive (or not so) criticism. Well, Boris, maybe next time, you could put one of those collars on her that gives her a shock when she’s not at the appointed place at the right time. Cookies? Fresh out of the oven . . .

As you can see, cookies are a big part of my approach.

6

I am terrible at this. I am guilty of giving unwanted advice constantly. Can’t help it. But I am a VERY vocal person and give my opinion on anything.

Maybe because I like the same in return. I want as many view points as possible before I decide on anything and tend to think others should like that as well.

CandyMan

7

I know what you mean, Turpentine. I tend to show that I’m listening by asking open-ended questions. I’ve learned this from my therapists - just ask “the next” question. If someone says, “Oh well my boyfriend and I had another fight and he called me a fat cow” (a great-looking coworker of mine said this the other day and I felt like smacking my shoe on the table) I’ll say, “Ouch! Does he say stuff like that a lot?” So far I’ve avoided telling her what I think she should do - dump that bozo and move on. Anyway, the point is, it’s hard, but there are ways to prove you’re tuned in when people vent.

I had a girlfriend a long time ago. She was a fairly open person about her inner feelings - I don’t think I could really handle it at that age. I used to try to figure out how to fix all her problems because I couldn’t stand to think of her in such great pain. The thing is, she wasn’t in terrible pain at all, she was just so much more expressive than most people I knew - they would only express that much if they were broken in half. So I would panic and try to give advice, and she’d say something like, “Don’t you know how to just say ‘There there’?” Good advice.

Shaky Jake, you put it very well. The distinction between Close Friends and Casual Friends is crucial, and lost on some people. I currently have a bunch of friends who function as Casual but should be Close. I’ve known these guys for as much as ten years and we still can’t talk about anything emotional. The opposite occurs too - in the workplace, when you hear about the details of someone’s love life, or their family problems.

One of the things that makes it hard to express is, one of the things people around me seem to hate is “grousing”, aka “whining”, “moping”, or “bellyaching”. These are all pejoratives for exactly what I want to do. So to some degree, if I explain what I want, then to a great degree I will always be admitting that I am doing exactly what the other person doesn’t want me to be doing.

I guess part of the problem is, sometimes I literally want to cry on someone’s shoulder. I mean, physical affection is completely lacking from my life. I live alone and I have a pretty cold family. It’s another thing that’s hard for a lot of people to deal with. It’s compounded by a terrible body image - I never feel clean, thin, or firm enough to actually touch another human being, with the exception of my infant nephew, whose shoulder is a little too small.

phouka, three cheers for your cookies.