Yes a bizarre technicality, to say the least.
For the record, which states might those be?
??? you don’t know that some states allow the Death Penalty and some do?
for the record:
from here
In looking at my quoted statement, it’s open to misinterpretation - what I’m saying is that here in the US, depending on where the crime is done and which autorirty prosecutes it (federal vs. state), the DP may or may not be involved, so in the case of the OP, the murdering father can opt not to have the DP apply to him by stating so, in the US, the murdering father can opt not to have the DP apply to him by careful selection of where to commit the crime.
Well, it is. The US does have something a little similar, although not as binding, with victim impact statements, where the family of the deceased can speak at death penalty sentencing hearings and urge the jury to either inflict the death penalty or not. Of course, in the US, the jury doesn’t have to act on their reccomendation.
I am sorry. I was so angry when I read the article I thought it said that since he was her father he couldn’t be punished for it.
That is what I get for reading with anger blinders on.
I wonder what his punishment will be.
Thank goodness.
Any experts on Islamic Jurisprudence? IIRC, the child’s mother is also part of the child’s family. Can’t she, or perhaps a male relative other than the father, request the ultimate penalty?
Sometimes, you have to wonder what makes people think the things they do… how horrible for the child…
How horrible for mankind, as a whole, regardless of race or creed…
You don’t have to go far to encounter this kind of attitude (maybe not to the point of beheading a child shudder) - even in the eastern world, there are plenty of people who see the rape of a family member, including children, as being an attack to family honour, respectability, and prestige… ask anyone who has worked in intervention…
Go figure.
What a sick, sick world we live in. Mankind is ill.
E.
I know that in some muslims countries, the family can ask for the DP not to be applied, so it doesn’t seem that bizarre to me.
Tars Tarkas: Since the uncle DIDN’T rape her (note the article), I would assume nothing.
Whoa. The assumptions in this thread are way too much! Some of you are talking about Iranians like they are from another planet.
Let me see if I can help here, being Iranian-born myself. I’m going to go research this and get back to you all.
Why did you get that impression? What words exactly gave you that impression?
“Another example of inequality is in relation to the murder of a child. If a father or parental grandfather murder their child they will not be subject to qesas – but will be subject to paying blood money to the inheritors of the deceased and punishment (ta’zir). A similar crime by the mother will be treated like an ordinary murder, subject to *qesas (article 202). The law therefore recognised the right of ownership over the life of a child and grandchild for the paternal side of the family, but not the maternal.”
*"Qesas is defined as “a punishment where the criminal’s sentence must be equivalent to their crime”. In the West this is commonly referred to as “an eye for an eye”.
-Zohreh Arshadi
(Ms Arshadi was a practising lawyer in Iran prior to her forced exile to Europe. She is currently an advocate in France and is active in human rights and especially of the rights of women. She has been especially active in defence of the rights of women in Iran.)
This is the ‘written’ law, and as many of us know, that’s not always the law in practice.
Anahita, I certainly did not mean to offend any of Iranian or Muslim descent. I alluded to the fact that we have people not recognizing the rights of women in our own backyard, and we also have sick people killing children. I do condemn a soceity where women aren’t even afforded second class status. The father has ownership of a child, but not the mother? This is a soceity in need of drastic changes, or in need of dying out. I can’t understand what it is about women that so frightens these men (be it here or there) that men make them little more than slaves. I find it disgusting, and I really wish that any women subjected to this could be relocated and get the counseling necessary for them to realize they are equals in every way to men. Let the men who think this way live their lives without women and procreating and passing on their sick, twisted mores.
D_Odds, I overreacted. I didn’t mean you. It’s these phrases (which I will not attribute) that get to me.
“over there”
“those people”
I agree with you that much of the law and government in Iran needs reforming.
I also agree there isn’t a punishment harsh enough for this father, but remember, there are a helluva a lot of child killers and rapists released because they have good lawyers or they got off on a technicality. It’s not a thing that’s unique to Iran or the States.
“A post-mortem, however, showed the girl was still a virgin.” gave me that impression. I’m sorry, but I find this totally irrelevant information and it left me with the feeling that the author believes if she had been raped then the crime would not have been as heinous.
I also think you might consider changing ‘condemning the society’ and ‘a society…in need of dying out’ to ‘condemning the government which allows this to happen’ and ‘condemning an archaic religious law system in need of dying out.’
xizor:
So, she was a virgin (though I have my doubts about how a post-mortem exam could determine that, but that’s another story).
*Originally posted by xizor :
Why do I get the impression from this article that if the girl had been raped then the locals over there would not be calling for the father to be hanged. That is even sadder still. *
And how does this lead you to believe that her father wouldn’t have been charged either way, for murder? I’m not seeing anything here that is evidence that the ‘author’ believed anything.
By the way, in general, referring to people who are nationals of a country as, ‘the locals over there,’ sounds kind of strange to me.
Anahita, I would mean both. IMO, government is a tool of soceity. The government allows this to happen, but if the people (soceity) didn’t want it to, there would be changes. Authoritarian rule is harder to change, admittedly, but we both know non-judicial punishment occurs world-wide (and I’m hoping occurs here).
I’ve seen a few Christian Fundamentalist sites that other posters have linked that place as low a value on women as that archaic religious law system. Fortunately, they are subjected to a better legal and representative system here in the US, and I suspect much of the western world.
I do not see these Fundamentalists, Christian or Muslim, as indicative of their respective religions. And I do think that men who believe this way should never be allowed within 100 miles of any woman (well, maybe Leona Helmsley, but that’s another story).
I think this argument from inherency is naive and demonstrates a certain lack of knowledge about the context of Iranian (or any) authoritarian, nonwestern society. Changes to the government certainly do not happen by social fiat, even in the democratic and republican United States.
To infer that the people of Iran tacitly consent to these sorts of laws is a convenient judgment, as it is devoid of research, nuance, and fact.