I just found out from my Japanese husband that he wants to move back to Japan, where he has not lived in over 50 years. He is 77, I am 75. I am 6’ tall and obese. I speak and understand a very modest amount of Japanese, and read much less. I spent an academic year there 45 years ago. We have sufficient funds to live out our lives in comfort and not be a burden on the government (except possibly for health care, I don’t know how that will work for an ex-pat).
I’m hoping to find out how it is to live there now, especially for ex-pat Americans or other non-Japanese who don’t have to work. I’m going to go talk to the local Japanese consulate to see what I can find out about immigration, visas and so on, so I don’t need to discuss that here. Anything that needs to be signed for, like housing and utilities, my husband can do. I’m more interested in everyday practical things, like can I find a phone in English, is internet access comparable to here, what’s it like to grow old and feeble there. Lots of stuff like that.
And what kinds of things are going to be hardest for me to deal with, in your opinion? I’m essentially a loner, but I don’t want to be completely isolated. What are the social opportunities like? We wouldn’t be living in Tokyo, but in a smaller city near his family that’s about an hour outside of the city.
I, personally, have no experience with what you are asking but I have seen a few videos on this from YouTube which you might find useful. These are just two but you can find more. Hopefully they will help you:
I salute your desire to help your spouse achieve what they want, even if it may end up being suboptimal to you. Not a lot of people can do that. I’m absolutely not able to give quality advice, as I haven’t been to Japan, much less lived there but wanted to circle back to something you mentioned.
Please talk with the consulate, your spouse, and whatever amateur or professional adviser you find about how that work work if (FSM forbid) your spouse pre-deceases you.
If the worst happened, I wouldn’t want you to be alone, in a land where you lack full communication skills, and find yourself unable to continue in your (new) home, pay bills, or otherwise manage the household if all such are linked solely to their name, and you lack the status/citizenship/etc. to assume control of such.
I have NO idea if there is any risk of that, but even in the US, there can be issues when everything is in one spouse’s name -only-, and I’d expect it to be at LEAST as bad potentially with a non-citizen (presumably, depending on if, how and how fast naturalization can occur for you) surviving spouse.
Please take my concerns as well intentioned, and I may well be giving rise to unneeded fears, but it’s the first thing that raised it’s ugly head when I read the line quoted above. Just check with all the professionals you already mentioned contacting!
Thank you for raising this concern, it certainly is possible. What he would be signing for (as I envision it) would be rental documents and other temporary arrangements, as I have no interest in buying property there (which I believe I am not allowed to do on my own). It may not be necessary, foreigners certainly rent apartments all the time, but it might save on key money at the beginning. We probably won’t have a car either. So I suspect that if he went first, I would up sticks and come back here.
Frankly, I’m more concerned with my life while there are still two of us. I’m sure he will be spending time with his family (3 older sisters still living, plus middle-aged nieces and nephews) and I will be left to my own devices much of the time.
@Whack-a-Mole, thanks for the idea of checking out videos on YouTube, i will follow up on that. I wonder if there will be any aimed at my age bracket, but we’ll see.
QFT. My current GF is in the process of divorcing. She’d been single and getting along just fine on her own up to her early 30s. So was a fully capable adult who was skilled at adulting on her own.
Then she got married and terminated all her own independent existence. SAHM, no job, no bank account, no credit card, no nothing. 100% of everything was/is in his name. His name is the only one on “her” car registration. IOW it’s his car that he lets her use. His name is on the credit card account and she has a card to use, but it’s his account. Etc. Which was not the slightest problem for 30-plus years. He made it, she spent it, and they were happily cooperating with everything.
But now that they’ve split up and she’s clueless and he’s only intermittently forthcoming and cooperative, it’s a significant mess trying to rebuild her independent existence and even learning what all is out there for a court to divvy up.
Our widowed OP would be in a similar spot albeit for very different reasons. With the added burden that late hubby will be totally unforthcoming and uncooperative; there’s nothing he can now do to help the OP understand the lease or the bank account(s) or the tax returns or … . Add in language barriers, possible changes in immigration status, etc., and this could get bad whether the OP intends to return to the USA or not.
Separate thoughts unrelated to the above:
The OP may not want to discuss this here, and that’s certainly fine if so. I’d feel remiss if I didn’t point out these potential issues for consideration, so here goes.
How is Japan about gay couples? Both officially and socially. I know I know exactly zero about that. My sense is that they’re already pretty hinky about mixed-race couples, so the OP will already be contending with that.
The OP has variously described his spouse as not too capable on his own, and as a bit of a shut-in. That’s a very crude sketch of his many words about his spouse and I don’t mean to insult or mischaracterize either of them. I mean just to set the stage for the thoughts below.
How much of spouse’s shortage of capability is his notso hotso English? Can you OP see yourself as turning into the same thing over there; hobbled by your lack of language skills? Does that prospect scare you or comfort you? Are you comfortable taking the follower role? More importantly / urgently, is he comfortable taking the leader role? Can he still do that after years of being the follower? Or was that never in his wheelhouse at all?
How capable is hubby of going it alone if the OP should be the first to become infirm or die? Would hubby have better success as a survivor if already in Japan, or still in the USA? Would hubby’s ability to manage the care of an invalided OP be better in Japan or the USA?
Whatever the OP & Hubby decide to do, I wish them both well. This strikes me as a very large project rather late in life. Perhaps they’ve thought all this through in detail already. Perhaps this is just a first exploratory step. Either way, I’ll suggest that this situation needs about 1000 looks before the first leap.
Much better for him to be in Japan, he would have much more emotional support.
Probably better in Japan, he would at least be able to say clearly that he doesn’t know what to do, and to seek help.
Exactly this.
Edited to add: my husband’s role in signing for things would be entirely performative, as much as is required or advisable in the circumstances for a foreigner living in Japan. I would not be a passive bystander at all. As for the gay and mixed race couple thing, we probably would not present that way, but as friends and roommates. I’m not worried about it, except for the possibility of problems of access to each other if one his hospitalized.
Great idea! Japan has strict guidelines regarding foreigners staying there on a permanent basis. Make sure you can remain if, God forbid, your husband passes before you, and under what circumstances you can remain.
That will be quite the move! It takes a lot of courage, but it’s very possible.
In no particular order, here are some things to consider.
First, you will need a visa and more about that below. You need the visa for your health care.
For health care. Japan has a National Health Insurance, and and at 75 years old, would belong to The Latter-Stage Elderly Healthcare System is called:
後期高齢者医療制度 / Kouki Koureisha Iryou Seido)**
Typical costs for retirees on a basic pension pay around ¥5,000–¥15,000/month (approx. $35–$100 USD), with a co-pay of 10%. Both the cost and the co-pay arebased on income, so it could be higher. There are caps on hospitalization costs, but you should look into the system more. I have additional private insurance which kicks in if I’m hospitalized. I don’t know if you would need that at your age.
Doctors are pretty good, and many of them speak some English. Nurses less so.
Internet speed is really good. You can usually get fiber with 1 G bps (they have 10 gbs service but I’m happy with 1 G.
I have unlimited data for my iPhone and get really good service. Do you use iPhone or Android? iPhone allows you to select English operating system and I presume Android would as well.
With smart phones, the language barrier is much lower. Between having your husband around and using the translator function, you shouldn’t have much of a problem.
I’m 6’ as well and generally it’s not a problem except when we were looking at buying older homes (like 50 year-old houses) because the internal doors are shorter. Modern apartments have taller door frames.
I second the concern about what would happen if your spouse goes first, I would plan on going back to the States. It would be hard to navagate the system on your own, and you would need a better support system.
It’s getting easier to rent apartments in Japan for foreigners, but there are still places which refuse to allow gaijin to rent. There are no laws against that. Back in the 80s and 90s, it was almost impossible, but things are not as bad now.
Without a car, pick a place which is close to a train station. The closer to the station, the more expensive the rent. Be aware that there will be lots of walking.
Be prepared for tiny apartments. Start to practice minimalism.
Growing old in Japan isn’t bad from what I’ve seen, although it can also depend on what your support system is like.
There aren’t as many older gaijin around, but there are some. I live out in the sticks so there aren’t any places to meet people, but there would be closer to Tokyo.
Retired Japanese tend to be pretty friendly and there are some who speak English. There are a lot of retired people who do morning exercise in parks, for example.
Although you specified that you don’t need to have any discussion concerning visas, this wouldn’t be the Dope if people didn’t disregard your instructions.
It’s possible that the consulate may not give you the best information. Here one site that looks good.
I would recommend talking to an immigration attorney.
Also note that if your visa is dependent on your husband, you lose that if he goes first. They can revoke the visa.
It used to be that it would take about 10 years to get permanent residency, but it may be shorter now. I would really recommend talking to an immigration attorney.
I have heard of gay couples where one of the partners actually adopts the other. It’s called adult adoption and happens in Japan, although usually for other reasons.
Your husband could have quite a cultural shock coming back to live in Japan after all the time in the States. Many Japanese who have lived abroad for a long time have a difficut time fitting in Japanese society again. However, for retired people, it may be easier?
Japan has really changed over the 45 years since I first lived here. Think about how much other societies have changed as well.
There are many things where Japan is decades behind the West. It takes hours and hours to sign up for cell phones and internet, for example. They often have very rigid rules.
There are so many foreigners who comes to Japan and complain about everything.
Other things that may be hard to deal with include your internal resistance to change and accepting things that don’t make sense. People who can go with the flow do better than those who wonder why the fuck can’t they just do it this way.
Also, it can be really hard to come over to a new culture and have no friends at all. Some people can’t cope with that. You can make friends, but it will take time and effort. Fortunately having the internet makes it easier to stay connected to people back home.
More about visas and such. Remember that immigration folks, by nature of their job, are looking for reasons to deny visas, rather than looking for reasons to grant them. You may get lucky and find someone friendly, but you could also find someone who isn’t helpful, especially considering your status. That’s another reason for talking to a lawyer.
Most Japanese couples live in a 2 LDK (two rooms, plus a “living, dining kitchen” room, with a bathroom, about 50 square meters (540 sq ft), although you can get larger. In Saitama City (to pick a random city a bit outside of Tokyo), rent would be about ¥120,000, give or take depending on how new it is, how far from the station, and other consideration. Rent in bumfuck Hokkaido, where I live, is half of that.
Expect to pay three to five months upfront in various fees and deposits.
As far as finances, be aware that your costs will be in yen, but your retirement and investments are in dollars. Trump’s policies are currently driving the dollar down so your income will be lower.
Thanks for all the information and points to consider. Just to deal with one that keeps coming up, if my husband were to die before me, I don’t think I would be particularly interested in staying in Japan.
Oh, and one other point: I wasn’t planning on relying on my relationship to a Japanese citizen to gain any consideration on receiving any kind of long-term visa. I was not going to even mention it at the consulate. I understand that same-sex marriages are not recognized, and that a same-sex relationship will probably get a lot of side-eye from neighbors or whoever.
There are long-term health plans (like travel health plans) that can go up to a year. Might be worth it to investigate and have some just-in-case coverage.
Japan is easy to navigate–the trains are signed in English, students want to practice English with you, and often people will just take you to the correct place if they understand what you need. Big food selection in convenience stores. Clean public facilities. Lots of temples, shrines, museums, and gardens to explore.
I am not an expat and never been to Japan (on my wish list!), but I have done some reading about people seeking to move out of the US for reasons having to do with the political climate. Here is one example that provides some insight to the more mundane obstacles Americans may encounter in trying to move to another country and culture:
Your partner may be your sole way to communicate in many situations, especially more mundane tasks like calling a repair-person, ordering an appliance, or finding your way around. That puts a lot of pressure on them, so open communications around that can help diffuse any tension there. Also, not having any of your own connections will pose a challenge - you will be fully dependent on your partner for most things, at least until you can find a few friends (I know you said you are not a super-social, but still).
Living somewhere can be very different from the way that place presents as a visitor, so be prepared to find out some of the less-advertised aspects of living in Japan (or anywhere). We have some friends who always wanted to live in Australia, and moved there when their kids were young. Less that two years later they were back - it wasn’t what they expected, I guess. Mentioning not to dissuade, just be aware and be ready to adjust your expectations.
It’s incredibly courageous to do what you are going to do, so I salute you and wish you both all the best.
I haven’t decided to do it yet. Also, I am somewhat aware of what to expect, I have lived in Japan before, visited many times, and am somewhat familiar with cultural differences.
I don’t have much to add past what others have said.
You’ve been there for extended periods, you speak a bit of the language. If you choose a region with a larger ex-pat community, you would probably be fine.
I suppose that I haven’t lived in Japan for 20ish years now but I’m doubtful that they’ve changed much, as regards long term visas. Unless you have some relatively strong and valid reason to be in the country, and a citizen guarantor, I doubt that they would let you come in.
That said, if you went to the embassy to get your visa, I’d expect the person there to strongly hint to you what the best steps are to follow to gain entry, though they can’t officially give you any such guidance. So while I do expect that your husband would be integral to your admission, I don’t think that should prove terribly problematic.
That article is absolute comedy gold and I thank you for it. I trust Roderick is less of a ninny than that woman.
Let’s see: don’t ship your car; don’t ship your cat; do attempt to learn a bit of the language; do take advantage of socializing with other expats if you can; do not expect the food to be identical to what you have in the States. You’re miles ahead of her already, although you may not have an empty rent-controlled apartment back in S.F. to fall back on.
