Lost 2.13: "The Long Con"

Here is my rationalization. Charlie didn’t necessarily need to follow Locke all that much. He would have been waiting outside the hatch as Locke took his first load. Charlie would have seen which direction Locked headed and, after a small interval, went down the same trail some distance. Then, later as Locke comes tripping back, Charlie sees from whence he comes and, after Lockes passes on his way to get the second load, Charlie heads on up the trail aways and waits for Locke again. Repeat a few times. By this time, Charlie, who seems to know a little about hiding stuff, will probably have a pretty good idea about which secret hiding spot that Locke used this time.

Now that part that defies logic is how Sawyer plans to keep his super-secret hiding spot hidden with all the super trackers on the island. And when does he plan to sleep?

Let’s not make this more complicated than it needs to be. Charlie rolled a natural 20 on his Move Silently skill check.

Plus, halflings get a bonus.

How much longer are the writer’s going to make us wait before they have Sawyer referring to Charlie as “The Hobbit”? Cause when they do, nobody is going to laugh harder than myself.

GOLD.

As for Sawyer’s motives, I think that they (well, Kate) said it outright in the episode. He just wants people to hate him, because he hates himself. He saw himself getting too close to Kate, so he had to make sure he betrayed her trust as well. Everybody’s looking at the island as a fresh start and figuring what their role is going to be on it; he’s too stuck on his past to be able to see himself as anything other than a con man, and it scares him when he sees signs that he can be something more. Because that takes more work. He finally recognizes that he could be a hero like Jack if he just made the effort, but he can’t risk failure. So he dismisses it as his basic human nature, and says “a tiger can’t change his stripes.”

I think John Mace’s take on Locke vs. Rousseau is dead-on. To the point where it’s kind of embarrassingly obvious, what with the names and all.

Everything Locke has done is motivated by his wanting to start a society on the island; it’s in his best interest to stay, because on the island he can walk and he has the opportunity to be the person he couldn’t be in the real world. So he’s all about stability (building cradles), order (making sure the numbers get entered), and government (locking up the guns).

If the “sickness” Rousseau described isn’t some paranormal thing or caused by a Dharma Initiative Brain Ray, which would be extremely cheesy, then it’s society. In athe most extreme version of a philosophy where individuals left to their own are good, and it’s enforcing order on them that causes problems, then the only way to get perfection would be to kill everybody else and then live alone on the island and go crazy.

Which makes me wonder if the whole thing isn’t a lot more mundane than smoke monsters and angels. I wonder if the Dharma Initiative’s experiment isn’t about electromagnetic generators or anything, but a great sociological experiment. And the island is basically a giant Skinner box. What happens if you remove people from society, put them in a controlled environment (with sharks and watchers and control centers) and force them to fend for themselves? Do they tend towards order, or do they inevitably go Lord of the Flies? Do they act completely out of self-interest?

Clearly, that’s the premise of the show. But I wonder now if they’re going to pull back and say that’s the premise of the island as well. When I first started watching, I would’ve said that was a huge cop-out, but now that I’ve seen how much mileage they get out of previous histories and character archetypes and group dynamics, I think it’d be a pretty profound revelation: this is what individual people bring to a society, and this is our role in it.

Dammit, I meant Larry Mudd’s take, not John Mace’s. (Although I haven’t seen anything John posted that I strongly disagreed with, either). Sorry to not give you enough credit for your research there, Larry.

That’s been one of my favorite hypothesis ever since we found out what was inside the bunker-- ie, the beginning of Season 2.

I almost corected you on that, but your summary of what Locke is doing was pretty much what I said earlier in this thread.

Now that I’ve finished catching up on the series, I can actually read and comment on these threads.

My theory on why Locke didn’t destroy the Heroin is that he has an intended purpose for it (I don’t think Locke does ANYTHING without thinking several moves ahead, including Charlie’s can o’ whupass). I’m thinking he’s envisioning an impending war as well - either with the others or amongst the factions that seem to be forming among the survivors. I think he has designs on making some kind of blow gun/dart shooter laced with the heroin for the purpose of sedating but not killing one’s foes. The survivors (well, Sawyer, now) have a pretty good stash of weapons, but my impression is that ammo is limited. Maybe Locke is thinking ahead, or maybe he’s plotting something sneakier.

One thing seems clear to me - ever since the Hunting Party, both Jack and Locke have been behaving differently. The encounter with Zeke seems to have left them both deeply affected, and I’m wondering if we’re preparing for a schism between the offensive-minded Jack/Ana Lucia faction and the strategy minded Locke-ites.

The problem with that is, there IS a smoke monster that projects the memories of living people…and blows up trees and pulls people down holes in the ground.
How does that fit into the Skinner box?
Tell you what…it might BE a Skinner box…but that doesn’t mean HUMANS are the ones doing the experimenting.

And the shark had a Dharma logo on it. There’s a lot more going on here than a psychological experiment.

I don’t know - of the things that fuck with your head, seeing a branded shark is one of them.

You mean they branded a normal shark with their logo, just on the off chance that it might show up near a raft as someone tried to escape and would pop out of the water enough for the logo to be noticed?

No, I meant it as a lame joke sir.

Where the heck is the thread for tonight’s episode?

I didn’t think it was on tonight because of the Olympics.

Unless, of course, ALL sharks are actually branded…we just can’t see it.

The Lostaways are finally seeing the fnords!

-Joe. fnord

Yes, it IS on tonight. I’ll start one.

According to ABC it is.

Seeing the what?